Toyota to release 2 different Prius-es to US & Europe

[jprates]

Originally Posted by bob_ninja

I think the cheaper Insight (assuming rumours are correct) will sell much better despite lack of power and space. That being said if I do end up getting a Prius it will be '09 with 1.5L

Allow me to completely disagree with you on this one.

Honda is shooting itself in the foot with the Insight. What on earth were they thinking about?
The Insight is even smaller than the Civic and worst of all, instead of using the same old IMA system from the Civic (which would be bad enough) they have a new IMA system with even LESS power on the electric side!!! What the hell!!!

If reducing the electric component is the way of Honda to present new hybrids, then no doubt they are quitting hybrid development all together.

Have a look on this Belgium pdf at page 11/24. Look at the power specs of the electric motor: only 10 kW!!!

http://www.fr.honda.be/pdf/POD_mag_jan09FR.pdf

Are they nuts??? Honda sucks big time if you ask me.
They were trying to follow Toyota for a short time, but they have completely dropped the towel now.

Toyota is pushing to the next stage, the Plug-In model, while Honda drops the electric power on its hybrids and increases ICE power... way to go... NOT.

So please, think about it next time you say Honda is doing better on new models than Toyota is.
Toyota at least is heading the right way, not going back in time as Honda is doing.

[bedrock8x]

Solid means Solid BUILD.

Typical Honda passenger cars are lighter in weight in comparable cars, like Civic to Corolla. This is one of the secret that Honda get better mileage and performance.

Originally Posted by bob_ninja

What does "solid" mean????
I have 2 hondas, older Civic and less old CRV. CRV I drive now in brutal Canadian winters (before CRV the small Civic was used year around).
I NEVER had any issues, any problems with either one, besides the usual rust and wear. Toyota cars may have more features, but a "solid" car is one that gets you from point A to point B regardless of features.

I don't understand how Honda's are not solid??????

[priusFTW]

I bought my Prius for FE. I also like the reduced carbon footprint. If I could buy a reliable EV for the same ballpark price as the Prius, I would do it. I hope the increased HP doesn't affect the FE negatively for US models. ;;

[TonyPSchaefer]

I think we know where this crowd sits. Currently 71% answered "I just think Toyota's making a mistake with a larger engine while sacrificing MPGs"

[JSH]

Originally Posted by jprates

Have a look on this Belgium pdf at page 11/24. Look at the power specs of the electric motor: only 10 kW!!!

http://www.fr.honda.be/pdf/POD_mag_jan09FR.pdf

Are they nuts??? Honda sucks big time if you ask me.

Thanks for the link jprates! Finally some specs on the 2010 Honda Insight:

ICE = 87 HP / 88.5 lb-ft
Motor = 13.4 HP / 76 lb-ft
Total = 100.4 HP / 164.5 lb-ft

Fuel Consumption (EU schedule)
----------------- L/100 km -------- US MPG
Urban ----------- 4.6 --------------- 51.1
Extra Urban ---- 4.2 --------------- 56.0
Combined ------- 4.4 --------------- 53.5

(That is about the same as the current Prius (5.0/4.2/4.3 or 54.7 US MPG combined)

[bob_ninja]

Originally Posted by jprates

...
The Insight is even smaller than the Civic and worst of all, instead of using the same old IMA system from the Civic (which would be bad enough) they have a new IMA system with even LESS power on the electric side!!! What the hell!!!

Short of magic, that is the only way to reduce the price.

Originally Posted by jprates

If reducing the electric component is the way of Honda to present new hybrids, then no doubt they are quitting hybrid development all together.

Have a look on this Belgium pdf at page 11/24. Look at the power specs of the electric motor: only 10 kW!!!

http://www.fr.honda.be/pdf/POD_mag_jan09FR.pdf

Are they nuts??? Honda sucks big time if you ask me.
They were trying to follow Toyota for a short time, but they have completely dropped the towel now.

Honda's niche has always been smaller/lighter/cheaper cars. There is no point copying Prius exactly as it is. So they choise smaller/cheaper/weaker segment of the market. If you suggest that such a segment doesn't exist then you don't have a clue what is going on here in North America. Our purchasing power is declining so Honda should be well positioned going forward.

Originally Posted by jprates

Toyota is pushing to the next stage, the Plug-In model, while Honda drops the electric power on its hybrids and increases ICE power... way to go... NOT.

The more accurate term would be "dragged/force to next stage, Plug-In" as Toyota execs kept saying that plugin and bigger battery don't make sense. In fact, in this economy ironically they are proving to be right. US buyers won't pay extra money for a bigger battery pack.

Originally Posted by jprates

So please, think about it next time you say Honda is doing better on new models than Toyota is.
Toyota at least is heading the right way, not going back in time as Honda is doing.

From technical perspective, yes Toyota pushing ahead with plugin is correct approach. Unfortunatelly the econimic factors are starting to dominate. In the weak economy and weak market cheaper hybrids will sell more. Thus for the short term Insight is the right car, despite its weak specs.

Anyway Prius will do fine long term. It will just face some poor sales short term. That is all.

[fredthepostman]

Originally Posted by Danny

We're less than a week away from the big reveal of the 2010 Prius, and I can confirm some rumors that have been going around about Toyota producing 2 different engines for the Prius depending on what part of the world you live in.

The information I have received shows that the US (& Canada?) will be receiving a Prius with a 1.8 liter engine, bumping up the HP to 100 for the gas engine and 160 overall including the electric motor. However, Europe (and perhaps the rest of the world) will be receiving a toned-down version of the Prius, keeping the engine size at 1.5 liters and bumping the current horsepower from 110 to probably around 125.

Hopefully next week we'll hear some hard numbers on how the 2 engines will compare in MPGs.

So, how many more MPG will the EU Prius have to get for you to look into importing one?

If the new Prius is bigger,won't the car also be heavier? I'm hoping the new Prius will get at least 5 to 6 more miles per gallon. Getting more mpg's ,being slightly larger and having more pep is a pretty good combo.

[jprates]

Originally Posted by bob_ninja

Short of magic, that is the only way to reduce the price.

Oh please... in order to have smaller cars with little or no electric motors we already have a lot from where to choose from.

If you don't want to buy a hybrid, if you do not want to take advantage of the electric torque and powertrain, buy a regular car.

By your own enumerated reasons the Insight is a fluke. It has the same MPG performance as a small non-hybrid car, it has worse dynamic performance than most, and it costs more because you have to pay for the motor and battery.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by jprates

Oh please... in order to have smaller cars with little or no electric motors we already have a lot from where to choose from.

If you don't want to buy a hybrid, if you do not want to take advantage of the electric torque and powertrain, buy a regular car.

By your own enumerated reasons the Insight is a fluke. It has the same MPG performance as a small non-hybrid car, it has worse dynamic performance than most, and it costs more because you have to pay for the motor and battery.

It is true that you lucky Europeans already have small non-hybrid cars that do better than the new Honda Insight.
I went to vcacarfueldata.org and found 42 cars that have do 4.4 L/100km or better combined
38 diesels
3 hybrids (Prius / Smart ForTwo coupe hybrid / Smart ForTwo convertible hybrid)
1 Petrol (Toyota IQ)

Most of those are multiple listings of the same platform:
Ford Fiesta / Mazda 2 is listed 5 times,
VW Polo / Skoda Fabia / Seat Ibiza is listed 5 times
Ford Focus / Volvo 30 is listed 5 times
The list goes on.....

Americans are not so lucky. We have 2 cars that have an EPA combined fuel economy greater than 40 mpg; Honda Civic Hybrid, Toyota Prius. I'm going to guess that the Honda Insight will be EPA rated at 45 mpg combined.

[mcsj]

Originally Posted by cycledrum

There have been more than a few occasions

No offense to you, but!

This is the reason why stupid Americans buy SUVs. On a few occasions they need to haul a lot of stuff; on a few occasions their SUVs need to carry 7 people; on a few occasions the roads are muddy and only SUVs have the power to take me home; on a few occasions they need their 300hp engine to overtake those stupid Prius drivers, on a few occassions....

BUT most of the time SUVs carry no load, drive on dry road, and carry no more than the driver him/herself.

AND this is how the Europeans do: drive a small car, and rent a larger van or truck when they really need more power and space.