Preview: 2010 Honda Insight

[SageBrush]

Jhinton --
And I suggest you own up to your previous posts, even if they are not in this specific thread.

I am all for mpg comparisons -- the apple to apple kind. Highway, city, cold weather, and short trips. The edmund's review is a start, but comparing the future Honda Insight of uncertain msrp to the soon to be replaced Toyota Prius is silly on it's face. At least the editors were clear in what they were grading, even if I personally thought the criteria and marks were useless. E.g., "Simply starting the car and understanding the transmission lever takes re-learning." Geez. They make it sound like people are being asked to eat their oatmeal with chopsticks.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by SageBrush

Jhinton --
And I suggest you own up to your previous posts, even if they are not in this specific thread.

I am all for mpg comparisons -- the apple to apple kind. Highway, city, cold weather, and short trips.

If you have an issue with one of my posts I recommend you respond in the same thread as the post that is so offending.

I'm concerned with what mileage I will actually get from the vehicle in the real world not a EPA dyno test. Yes, the EPA tests are apples to apples but that doesn't mean that they represent the reality of driving on actual roads.

My 2003 VW consistently returns better than EPA ratings of (35/39/45)
My 2005 Prius only returns the EPA rating (48/46/45)

[SageBrush]

I'm concerned with what mileage I will actually get from the vehicle in the real world not a EPA dyno test

Uh huh. Information you intend to glean from the Honda course, or the Edmund's course ? The dyno test is not inherently better or worse than a road test; it just has it's own set of driving conditions and drivers -- just like a road test.

I suspect that the mpg ratios between two vehicles on the EPA testing and other head to head road tests vary less than how you use each of your vehicles.

[Tideland Prius]

ok guys... settle down.

[edmcohen]

Originally Posted by bob_ninja

Could you provide some links about Insight's CVT? Could you comment on the cost/reliability of Insight's "cone-and-belt" as opposed to the more sophisticated Prius'? thanks

If you Google "CVT transmissions" you will get various sources, and in particular, a nice Wikipedia article. These transmissions are glorified V-belts, made of exotic materials. Special ATF, available only from the manufacturer, is required for warranty. I have already heard a horror story of exorbitant prices charged for the replacement transmission fluid. We know that the new Insight is distressingly noisy under acceleration. All this increases the attractiveness to me of the absence of a friction clutch or a mechanical gear change in the Prius.

[MSantos]

There is a fair amount of mis-information and fear mongering regarding CVT transmissions. I am not going to pretend to know much about Non-Honda CVT's since I frankly do not look at them much (my emphasis is strictly Toyota and Honda vehicles) .

The eCVT used by Toyota is relatively bullet proof so we won't dwell on that. The CVT's produced by Honda in the other hand had quite an evolution over the last 10 years and despite the scorn that it often gets in some circles, they can be very reliable especially when the C-ATF fluid is changed regularly.

Yes, the CVTs manufactured by Honda do use somewhat exotic materials and production processes. In fact Honda produces much of the CVT components in-house since quality control is critical. Yes, the formulation of the C-ATF fluid is also unique and very specific.
But it being costly? Nope. Sorry, I speak from experience on this one and its not much different from the cost to change the ATF fluid on a regular AT equipped vehicle.

Contrary to the seriously misinformed reports from the previewing media, the Insight's CVT is not the source of the noise under WOT. Not in the Insight and definitely not on the HCH-2 either. The engine is the source of the noise, especially when they pin it at 6000+ RPM in the senseless and totally wasteful tests they run.


Cheers;

MSantos

[Per]

Originally Posted by edmcohen

If you Google "CVT transmissions" you will get various sources, and in particular, a nice Wikipedia article. These transmissions are glorified V-belts, made of exotic materials. Special ATF, available only from the manufacturer, is required for warranty. I have already heard a horror story of exorbitant prices charged for the replacement transmission fluid. We know that the new Insight is distressingly noisy under acceleration. All this increases the attractiveness to me of the absence of a friction clutch or a mechanical gear change in the Prius.

Well, I just had the transmission oil changed along with other service items at my Honda dealer, and the cost for changing the transmission oil including labor, was $100.00. I don't call that exorbitant!

[tpfun]

Originally Posted by edmcohen

If you Google "CVT transmissions" you will get various sources, and in particular, a nice Wikipedia article. These transmissions are glorified V-belts, made of exotic materials. Special ATF, available only from the manufacturer, is required for warranty. I have already heard a horror story of exorbitant prices charged for the replacement transmission fluid. We know that the new Insight is distressingly noisy under acceleration. All this increases the attractiveness to me of the absence of a friction clutch or a mechanical gear change in the Prius.

What does "being made in exotic materials" have to do with longevity ? Even V-belts last quite a long time in modern automobiles. Please cite your sources, besides Wikipedia.

[Rybold]

Originally Posted by Tideland Prius

Preview: 2010 Honda Insight

Did they redesign it yet?

I think that's what most people are waiting for. In the meantime, for Honda lovers, the Civic Hybrid is looking pretty good.

[Tideland Prius]

Originally Posted by Rybold

Did they redesign it yet?

I think that's what most people are waiting for. In the meantime, for Honda lovers, the Civic Hybrid is looking pretty good.

Not in Canada. They've raised the HCH's price quite a bit. It was $25,800 back in 2006 (dropped from $28,500 in 2005) then after a few quick price jumps, it has slowly risen and is now $27,350. An Insight EX (equiv. to your EX-L) is $27,500. The base Prius is $27,500. Hmm... $150 more gets me a Prius.