What was hot, and not, in 2004

IsrAmeriPrius · 01-17-2005, 06:02 PM

What was hot, and not, in 2004 Click here

Most Overrated #1 - Hybrids
Questionable real world consumption numbers, resale value and long-term maintenance costs should keep the smart car buyer away from hybrids. But then, the Chevette was a best seller in its day, too.

Like buying your decaf mocha at Starbucks, with hybrids, you get the exclusive opportunity to wait in line and pay a premuim price. You'll be in good company with million-per-flick Hollywood greenies Tom Hanks, Cameron Diaz and Susan Sarandon, who all drove a flock of Priuses to last year's Academy Awards.

Most Underrated #1 - Diesels
With conspiracy theorists questioning the timing of their sudden proliferation--from the micro-miserly Smart car to the all-conquering V-10 Volkswagen Touareg--diesels came back big time in 2004. And why not? Big horsepower numbers may look good in a Car and Driver test-track comparo, but for the rest of us, its torque that walks the talk.

flyingprius · 01-17-2005, 06:43 PM

We've already had this discussion before.
We already know which one is better; it's not the one that has been banned in certain U.S. states because the pollutants are recognized to be too environmentally devastating.

IsrAmeriPrius · 01-17-2005, 07:31 PM

Just in case that this is not self evident, that excerpt does not represent my personal opinion. It is taken from an article which was published in the Canadian news magazine, MacLeans.

**Tideland Prius** · 01-17-2005, 08:08 PM

I used to be someone who promoted torque over horsepower but I noticed that high torque ratings in a diesel engine is just as OVERrated as horsepower ratings in gasoline engines. I compared engines in a UK Corolla. This is how it turned out:

2.0 D-4D Diesel Manual (This is Toyota GB's latest diesel). It has 207lb-ft of torque. It took 10.6secs to 60.

1.6 VVT-i Petrol Manual. 111lb-ft of torque and it takes 10.2 secs.

It has just under 100lb-ft less, yet it takes longer to go to 60. A gas engine with 207lb-ft will probably take this car to 60 in 6secs? Granted, it depends on the gear ratios and such but I think too much of either is bad - hp OR torque. A balance would be more ideal.

**Tideland Prius** · 01-17-2005, 08:09 PM

Oh and diesels may emit fewer CO2 particles but NOX and HCs are higher than gas engines. Plus, the last time I checked, gas was at 84.9¢/litre while diesel was at 89.9¢/litre

prberg · 01-18-2005, 06:05 AM

I have to diagree with the author of this article (as most people on this board probably would). He mentions that maintenance costs would keep the smart car buyer from buying this car. My experience with the Prius (only 2 years) so far has shown maintence costs to be much less than my previous car.

You can go 100,000 miles and the only required maintence is oil changes, air filters, and tire rotation (plus some visual inspections). I think that is darn good.

While the fuel consumtion is not quite the 55-60 that is advertised it is still much higher than almost every vehicle out there. And if you look at the numbers advertised for other vehicles I think you will find most vehicles don't actually meet those numbers because of the way the EPA runs their tests.

Just my 2 cents, love the prius and i'm sure I will never own a non-hybrid vehicle again. (once you go from 25MPG to 50MPG you never want to go back)

**TonyPSchaefer** · 01-18-2005, 10:26 AM

how can someone comment on future maintenance costs of a new product? I have purchased many products that I thought to be of high quality but required astronomical maintenance costs. Meanwhile, I drove a Plymouth Reliant - which many people thought was 'disposable' - for five years and up to 135,000 miles with no unusual maintenance requirements.

All I'm saying is that for someone to speculate about the future is just that, specualtion. My apologies to Dianne Worwick and Madam Spectra, but HOOIE!

And I agree with prberg. I hope to never own another "normal" vehicle again.

01-17-2005, 06:43 PM	#2
flyingprius Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Posts: 150 My Car: Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	Re: What was hot, and not, in 2004 We've already had this discussion before. We already know which one is better; it's not the one that has been banned in certain U.S. states because the pollutants are recognized to be too environmentally devastating.

01-17-2005, 07:31 PM	#3
IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 4,338 My Car: 2005 Prius Model: Package: #6 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	Re: What was hot, and not, in 2004 Just in case that this is not self evident, that excerpt does not represent my personal opinion. It is taken from an article which was published in the Canadian news magazine, MacLeans.

01-17-2005, 08:08 PM	#4
Tideland Prius Moderator of the North Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 21,120 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: N/A Package: Technology Package (Canada) Thanks: 365 Thanked 522 Times in 351 Posts Friends: 26	I used to be someone who promoted torque over horsepower but I noticed that high torque ratings in a diesel engine is just as OVERrated as horsepower ratings in gasoline engines. I compared engines in a UK Corolla. This is how it turned out: 2.0 D-4D Diesel Manual (This is Toyota GB's latest diesel). It has 207lb-ft of torque. It took 10.6secs to 60. 1.6 VVT-i Petrol Manual. 111lb-ft of torque and it takes 10.2 secs. It has just under 100lb-ft less, yet it takes longer to go to 60. A gas engine with 207lb-ft will probably take this car to 60 in 6secs? Granted, it depends on the gear ratios and such but I think too much of either is bad - hp OR torque. A balance would be more ideal. __________________ 2005 Tideland Pearl Premium Package 25/10/04 VVT-i Emblem, Sport Pedals, All-Weather Mats, Cargo Mat, Cargo Net, Wheel Locks, EV Mod, JDM Prius Footwell Lighting, DICE iPod Kit, LED lights 2008 Deep Black smart fortwo passion coupé - sold (6.1L/100km) 2010 Blue Ribbon Metallic Technology Package 29/08/09 All-Weather Mats, Homemade Console Pads, LED lights, Illum. Scuff Plates, Cargo Net, Wheel Locks "Ask an Expert" on Facebook I am not employed by Toyota, and the opinions expressed by me as a Prius Expert are not those of Toyota.

01-18-2005, 06:05 AM	#6
prberg Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Burbank, California Posts: 145 My Car: 2004 Prius Model: Package: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	Re: What was hot, and not, in 2004 I have to diagree with the author of this article (as most people on this board probably would). He mentions that maintenance costs would keep the smart car buyer from buying this car. My experience with the Prius (only 2 years) so far has shown maintence costs to be much less than my previous car. You can go 100,000 miles and the only required maintence is oil changes, air filters, and tire rotation (plus some visual inspections). I think that is darn good. While the fuel consumtion is not quite the 55-60 that is advertised it is still much higher than almost every vehicle out there. And if you look at the numbers advertised for other vehicles I think you will find most vehicles don't actually meet those numbers because of the way the EPA runs their tests. Just my 2 cents, love the prius and i'm sure I will never own a non-hybrid vehicle again. (once you go from 25MPG to 50MPG you never want to go back)

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01-17-2005, 06:02 PM	#1
IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 4,338 My Car: 2005 Prius Model: Package: #6 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Friends: 0	What was hot, and not, in 2004 What was hot, and not, in 2004 Click here Most Overrated #1 - Hybrids Questionable real world consumption numbers, resale value and long-term maintenance costs should keep the smart car buyer away from hybrids. But then, the Chevette was a best seller in its day, too. Like buying your decaf mocha at Starbucks, with hybrids, you get the exclusive opportunity to wait in line and pay a premuim price. You'll be in good company with million-per-flick Hollywood greenies Tom Hanks, Cameron Diaz and Susan Sarandon, who all drove a flock of Priuses to last year's Academy Awards. Most Underrated #1 - Diesels With conspiracy theorists questioning the timing of their sudden proliferation--from the micro-miserly Smart car to the all-conquering V-10 Volkswagen Touareg--diesels came back big time in 2004. And why not? Big horsepower numbers may look good in a Car and Driver test-track comparo, but for the rest of us, its torque that walks the talk. __________________ Justice, justice you shall pursue. (Deuteronomy 16:20)

01-17-2005, 08:09 PM	#5
Tideland Prius Moderator of the North Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 21,120 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: N/A Package: Technology Package (Canada) Thanks: 365 Thanked 522 Times in 351 Posts Friends: 26	Oh and diesels may emit fewer CO2 particles but NOX and HCs are higher than gas engines. Plus, the last time I checked, gas was at 84.9¢/litre while diesel was at 89.9¢/litre

01-18-2005, 10:26 AM	#7
TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Far-North Chicagoland Posts: 11,178 My Car: 2004 Prius Model: Package: #9 Thanks: 56 Thanked 293 Times in 184 Posts Friends: 27	how can someone comment on future maintenance costs of a new product? I have purchased many products that I thought to be of high quality but required astronomical maintenance costs. Meanwhile, I drove a Plymouth Reliant - which many people thought was 'disposable' - for five years and up to 135,000 miles with no unusual maintenance requirements. All I'm saying is that for someone to speculate about the future is just that, specualtion. My apologies to Dianne Worwick and Madam Spectra, but HOOIE! And I agree with prberg. I hope to never own another "normal" vehicle again.