Toyota Advanced Fuel Cell Hybrid Vehicle Completes Government Field Evaluation

[eaglesight333]

Saw this article from Toyota.

Toyota Vehicles : Toyota Advanced Fuel Cell Hybrid Vehicle Completes Government Field Evaluation / Toyota

[zenMachine]

The results were averaged for an estimated range of 431 miles, with an average fuel economy of 68.3 miles/kg.

For comparison, the 2009 Toyota Highland Hybrid achieves an EPA-estimated rating of 26 mpg combined fuel economy and has a full-tank range of approximately 450 miles. With premium grade gasoline currently priced at about $3.25, the gasoline-powered V6 Highlander hybrid is estimated to travel approximately 26 miles at a cost of about $3.25. Currently, hydrogen gas pricing is not fixed, but DOE targets future pricing at $2 to $3 per kilogram. Therefore, the FCHV-adv is estimated to travel approximately 68 miles at a projected cost of about $2.50 - more than double the range of the Highlander Hybrid, at equal or lesser cost, while producing zero emissions...

[bluetwo]

Cool! And here I thought Honda was just dreaming with the FCX and/or trying to show everybody they could do it.

Strangely enough this kind of legitimizes hydrogen and fuel cell technology for me.

Did you guys know hydrogen boils at -423.18°F? In liquid form hydrogen is about 1/14th the density of the gas form. If only we could "cool" it!

[PriusSport]

Premium fuel right now is 15-20% more expensive than regular. The Highlander's 26mpg is equivalent cost-wise to 21-22 mpg with a regular fuel car. Premium fuel does not fit with the times, and should be phased out. There is no reason why all cars should not be able to run on regular fuel. Let's go, Washington.

[bluetwo]

Originally Posted by PriusSport

Premium fuel right now is 15-20% more expensive than regular. The Highlander's 26mpg is equivalent cost-wise to 21-22 mpg with a regular fuel car. Premium fuel does not fit with the times, and should be phased out. There is no reason why all cars should not be able to run on regular fuel. Let's go, Washington.

Freedom... That's why we still have higher octane fuels and engines that can only run on them without being damaged. Because people will say they feel they should have the freedom to choose a high performance set up if that's what they want and frankly I agree. Why the Highlander was made that way..... I admit it seems a little wierd but I don't want to get too far off topic.

In Japan they have gas with octanes of way over 100, which is why cars like Honda Type-R editions, for example, have considerably higher horsepower due to the engines with more intense tuning.

It seems fair enough to compare the apples to oranges in this way to me though because it's just a start and we need some kind of comparison. Efficient hydrogen storage is still in it's infancy and not practical from how I understand it anyway.

[usbseawolf2000]

I wouldn't be surprised if 2015 Prius would use hydrogen instead of gasoline. It is Prius after all... TO GO BEFORE.

[hill]

Originally Posted by usbseawolf2000

I wouldn't be surprised if 2015 Prius would use hydrogen instead of gasoline. It is Prius after all... TO GO BEFORE.

First; SHAME on you Toyota ~ You'll loose credibility if you continue down this path.
With all due respect ... you will NEVER see hydrogen cars mass produced. Am I the only one who's ever heard of the FIVE MIRACLES It'd take to actually make hydrogen practical? ... or the only one to have ever read, "The Hydrogen Hoax" ?!?

The New Atlantis » The Hydrogen Hoax

Yes, just a few minor glitches to work out. Oh, wait! That's what hydrogen proponents said in the 1970's!! ... that it'd be ready in 10 years. When the 1980's came along? Oh! In just 10 more years. Then the 90's ?? You guessed it. Now, a decade farther down the hoax, there's been no silver bullet to bring hydrogen to practicality.

The complexity of the vehicles are such that they'd cost HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of dollars. Infrastructure would be in the trillions. Oh! and lest I forget, the article fails to mention how there's at LEAST a 20% energy loss, just compressing the hydrogen up to FIVE THOUSAND POUNDS PRESSURE. Do you REALLY want a car with 20 or 30 gallons of FIVE THOUSAND PSI fuel to get around in?

Do you KNOW how many times farther you can go in an EV, if you simply used the electricity to power the EV, rather than separating hydrogen with it? Do you know how many times farther you can go in a compressed natural gas car, if you simply used CNG as fuel rather than stripping hydrogen from it?

There was big money doled out to research hydrogen, but there's been virtually nothing to show for it, when you consider what our tax dollars paid for. Now, Politicians LOVE hydrogen! Why? They don't have to DO anything ... "hey, I gave away your tax dollars for research ... see? I'm doing something for energy independence and the environment". No, they're NOT. EVEN the OIL companies refused to get involved in attempting to build a hydrogen infrastructure, after tax dollars were waived at 'em. I've already written an epistle with more detail on some other thread, so I'll just leave it at that. Nah, I gotta throw out a few more links:

http://www.efcf.com/reports/E21.pdf
The Hydra Headed Hydrogen Hoax on "Freedom" Cars
NOVA | Car of the Future Open Content | Romm 15 | PBS
Hydrogen Damage of Metallic Materials - a knol by Prof.T.K.Govindan Namboodhiri
Mark Vaughn: AutoWeek Magazine

The REAL crime of hydrogen is it takes valuable dollars that'd best be spent on battery development.
Anyway ... you can find good reads on this all day long. C'mon people.

.

[Tideland Prius]

Originally Posted by bluetwo

Freedom... That's why we still have higher octane fuels and engines that can only run on them without being damaged. Because people will say they feel they should have the freedom to choose a high performance set up if that's what they want and frankly I agree. Why the Highlander was made that way..... I admit it seems a little wierd but I don't want to get too far off topic.

In Japan they have gas with octanes of way over 100, which is why cars like Honda Type-R editions, for example, have considerably higher horsepower due to the engines with more intense tuning.

It seems fair enough to compare the apples to oranges in this way to me though because it's just a start and we need some kind of comparison. Efficient hydrogen storage is still in it's infancy and not practical from how I understand it anyway.

Don't confuse our rating with the ones in Japan. Our 87 is their 95 RON. Premium is 99 or 101.. I forget.

[Mike Dimmick]

Originally Posted by Tideland Prius

Don't confuse our rating with the ones in Japan. Our 87 is their 95 RON. Premium is 99 or 101.. I forget.

Tideland, RON (Research Octane Number) is normally about three or four points above AKI (anti-knock index), the ratings on gas pumps in North America. It does depend on the formulation. Anyway, 95 RON is roughly equivalent to your 91-92. An equivalent of 87 is not available in the UK or (I think) in Japan.

Perhaps you were thinking of the other value in the AKI calculation, the Motor Octane Number. MON is commonly 8-10 points below RON. AKI is the average of MON and RON.

[David Beale]

Also don't jump to conclusions re premium fuel and vehicles that "want" it (most of the modern ones -can- run regular btw). You see, the anti-Prius (2001 Nissan Pathfinder LE - 3.5 L "VQ" engine, automatic) "wanted" premium (better than 92 octane rating). It ran on regular (87 octane rating) just fine, EXCEPT it got poorer mileage. So much so that it was less expensive per mile to run premium. So I fed it premium. Lots of it. It burned about three times as much fuel as Pearl per mile.