GM wants a 230MPG rating from the EPA

[Per]

Nevertheless, claiming 230 MPG is asinine! Remember all the hoopla about the Prius not delivering on MPG. Can you imagine the outcry when someone gets 50 MPG when Chevy is claiming 230?

[Per]

Originally Posted by DaveinOlyWA

so are motorcycles, 90% of the cars made before the late 90's and remember, the ONLY thing that is unsafe is a careless or reckless driver!!

Why would you call motorcycles unsafe? At least they can get out of the way! And there is no way you can compare the pre-90s cars to a tin can!

[3PriusMike]

Originally Posted by Per

Nevertheless, claiming 230 MPG is asinine! Remember all the hoopla about the Prius not delivering on MPG. Can you imagine the outcry when someone gets 50 MPG when Chevy is claiming 230?

Completely agreed.

I think that the 230 mpg number is based on gasoline used for a given distance when a full battery charge was used plus some small amount of gasoline. Obvisouly this makes no sense.

From all I've read, the Volt probably gets about 50 mpg when on gasoline only (after the battery is down to 30% or so) and it gets about 100 MPGe when considering only electric usage, where the 100 is based on an equivalency of about 33.7 kw-hrs per gallon of gasoline (1 gal gas = 115,000 BTUs and 33.7 kw-hr = 115,000 BTUs).

IMO, the window sticker should provide both these numbers for city and highway and leave it at that. Because trying to construct a usage per day on each will need to assume to many details about an individual's driving.

3PriusMike

[windstrings]

Originally Posted by Per

Nevertheless, claiming 230 MPG is asinine! Remember all the hoopla about the Prius not delivering on MPG. Can you imagine the outcry when someone gets 50 MPG when Chevy is claiming 230?

By definition.... plugin ratings are all deceptive unless you start using MPGE.

MPG... simply means Miles per Gallon... if a horse is pulling you, or 5 of your friends are pushing you, or an electric motor that is running off a battery thats charged all night and is propelling you, that has nothing to do with, and is a completely different issue than "how many miles you got from each gallon of gas".

Any company that exploits deceptive verbiage cannot be trusted for anything else either. Especially when its exploited to the 10th degree.

To make it simple:
The Volt is merely an electric car.. no more no less, and when the electricity runs out, it uses gas to recharge the battery so it can again run off of the electricity.

All electric cars and motors use electricity made from fuel, wind or some other source... so do we rate them based on that wind, fuel, or the other source that charges back the electricity or do we rate them on how many KW it uses per mile, regardless of where the electricity came from?

There are no standards of measurement yet.. so like everything else from wattage ratings of cheap car amplifiers to candlepower of searchlights, it gets exploited, hyped and exaggerated because there no one to say "your wrong".

[Per]

Originally Posted by windstrings

To make it simple:
The Volt is merely an electric car.. no more no less, and when the electricity runs out, it uses gas to recharge the battery so it can again run off of the electricity.

From what I understand, the Volt does not use the on-board generator to recharge the battery. It only produces current for the electric motor.

[windstrings]

Originally Posted by Per

From what I understand, the Volt does not use the on-board generator to recharge the battery. It only produces current for the electric motor.

Humm.... If thats true, the burst amperage the motor can draw will be dependent upon what the generator can produce at a given instance once the battery is depleted?

Is the Gas engine going to rev up and down to meet demand?

Once the battery is dead.. your running off the ICE completely?

That would be an extremely poor design and the battery would "never" get charged unless you plugged it in or the occasional regen of braking and coasting...

Surely you must either be mistaken or they have it rigged so it supplies amperage in a parallel circuit "with" the battery.. so the gas ICE combined amperage with the battery together gives total juice to the electric motor and also charges the battery at the same time its supplying power to the wheels. Even then, your still up up a creek when the battery dies.

There almost "has" to be the battery inline somehow to act as a buffer to give full power in moments when needed, but yet only a trickle when needed... like sitting at a light or coasting.

If what you say is true, they really do have a stone-age hybrid with haughty claims of grandeur.

But beware... if the ICE supplies power directly to the wheels.. its not an "electric" car and becomes a "hybrid".. the same class the prius is in and so would not qualify for the government rebate that only electric cars get.

[drees]

Originally Posted by windstrings

Humm.... If thats true, the burst amperage the motor can draw will be dependent upon what the generator can produce at a given instance once the battery is depleted?

No. The battery will act as a buffer.

Originally Posted by windstrings

Is the Gas engine going to rev up and down to meet demand?

Most likely.

Originally Posted by windstrings

Once the battery is dead.. your running off the ICE completely?

No. The battery will act as a buffer.

Originally Posted by windstrings

Surely you must either be mistaken or they have it rigged so it supplies amperage in a parallel circuit "with" the battery.. so the gas ICE combined amperage with the battery together gives total juice to the electric motor and also charges the battery at the same time its supplying power to the wheels.

That's essentially what happens once you go into charge sustaining mode.

Originally Posted by windstrings

Even then, your still up up a creek when the battery dies.

No.

Originally Posted by windstrings

There almost "has" to be the battery inline somehow to act as a buffer to give full power in moments when needed, but yet only a trickle when needed... like sitting at a light or coasting.

Yes, the battery is inline with the generator. Hence the term "series hybrid".

Originally Posted by windstrings

But beware... if the ICE supplies power directly to the wheels.. its not an "electric" car and becomes a "hybrid".. the same class the prius is in and so would not qualify for the government rebate that only electric cars get.

I believe you are very confused. Per's misleading statement doesn't help, either.

A correct statement would be "The generator is used to maintain charge levels of the battery once the battery has been 'depleted' and the car is running in charge-sustaining mode. Depleted meaning that the charge level has fallen below some minimum level."

[windstrings]

Originally Posted by drees

Yes, the battery is inline with the generator. Hence the term "series hybrid".

Exactly.. meaning the car runs off the battery and the ICE maintains charge on that battery.

The previous poster implied the ICE was directly tied to the electric motor bypassing the battery.. "unless I misunderstood".

The term "series hybrid" is misleading unless both the ICE and the battery run the car as the term "hybrid" means two into one "which by the way would disqualify it for being an electric car and receiving government tax credits if that were true.

Otherwise, its an electric car, with battery being maintained by a generator once the plugin power is gone.

ICE, or a bag of monkeys turning wheels generating power to the battery... in either case, it runs off of electricity.... not gas.

[drees]

Originally Posted by windstrings

The previous poster implied the ICE was directly tied to the electric motor bypassing the battery.. "unless I misunderstood".

Well, the thing is is that it probably will be able to direct electricity directly from the generator to the drive motor in order to bypass charge/discharge losses through the battery.

The ICE-generator will probably be more-or less wired in parallel with the battery and the power electronics.

Once in charge sustaining mode:

In steady state cruising, most of the power will be shunted straight from the generator to the drive motor.

If the power demand goes above the capabilities of the generator, the battery will be used to supply additional power.

If the battery charge gets too low, the electronics will direct power to re-charge the batteries above some point to store energy for future high-power demands.

I imagine that the ICE-generator will be programmed so that it's response time lags throttle input by a significant degree to improve NVH.

Originally Posted by windstrings

The term "series hybrid" is misleading unless both the ICE and the battery run the car as the term "hybrid" means two into one "which by the way would disqualify it for being an electric car and receiving government tax credits if that were true.

Otherwise, its an electric car, with battery being maintained by a generator once the plugin power is gone.

ICE, or a bag of monkeys turning wheels generating power to the battery... in either case, it runs off of electricity.... not gas.

From what I understand, I don't think it really matters in the end the exact configuration of the drivetrain to qualify for the "electric" car rebate. What matters is that the car uses an external electricity power source to charge the onboard batteries which store energy used to later power an electric motor to propel the car.