Toyota's Sets PHEV Release Date

[Cacti]

hampdenwireless,

Is it possible to set up a poll to get an idea how many PriusChat forum members would consider a PHEV?

"Coleman said he would be “shocked” if Prius owners all jumped at plug-in hybrids."

[drees]

At this rate, I'll have my hands on an EV (Nissan Leaf) before I can get my hands on a PHEV (Toyota Prius).

[Rybold]

Originally Posted by drees

At this rate, I'll have my hands on an EV (Nissan Leaf) before I can get my hands on a PHEV (Toyota Prius).

Don't forget the extra money it is going to cost you to put a new body on the car that doesn't look like it's something out of a Japanese anime comic book.

[SageBrush]

Prius did not become acceptable in the US because of PriusChat, but because of $4/gallon fuel. OTOH, PriusChat (and other enthusiast sites) *did* and do facilitate a high owner satisfaction.

Toyota is hamstrung until fuel costs rise enough. The same will be true of the other *EV early announcements from Nissan, Ford etc.

[efusco]

Originally Posted by SageBrush

Prius did not become acceptable in the US because of PriusChat, but because of $4/gallon fuel. OTOH, PriusChat (and other enthusiast sites) *did* and do facilitate a high owner satisfaction.

Toyota is hamstrung until fuel costs rise enough. The same will be true of the other *EV early announcements from Nissan, Ford etc.

Not trying to claim that the Prius is a success exclusively b/c of Priuschat in any way shape or form, but the Prius became a 'hard to get' vehicle before we had $4/gal gas. Many factors came into play.

But I disagree that it will take high gas prices to get a PHEV or EV to be successful...but it will take more than hidy-holing them away in fleets where people don't pay for their own gas, have no personal investment in achieving good fuel economy or even a good incentive to remember to plug them in.

I readily admit I don't understand the whole 'fleet' system, but this type of technology seems the perfect item to get into the hand of vocal enthusiasts with motivation to spread the world to the broader public.

[Rybold]

"According to Nikkei, Toyota's plug-ins will run 12 to 18 miles on battery power alone at full charge, and will cost about $48,000."

And due to competition, Toyota producing PHEVs will be a sure thing:

"Announcements about plug-ins have gained momentum in the past few weeks. General Motors said it’s on track to introduce the Chevy Volt plug-in hybrid sedan in late 2010, followed by a plug-in sport-utility vehicle in 2011. Hyundai plans to have a plug-in hybrid on sale by late 2012. Volvo said that its plug-in hybrid will be “a reality” by 2012. Toyota will begin commercial production of plug-in hybrids in 2012, producing between 20,000 and 30,000 units in the first year, according to media reports.

"Hyundai said the Blue-Will will get an estimated 50 to 55 mpg in the hybrid-electric mode and can travel about 38 miles in electric-only mode. .We're going after Prius and the Volt with the plug-in," said Woong-chul."
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center-article_214/

[plug-it-in]

I love my 2008 Prius. My only beef is that on short distances -go to store for milk? - it burns too much gas. There is too much yap about battery technology etc. Give my Prius a 60-80 km (40-60 mile) EV range with 8 hr (overnight recharge) and voila, you would have the perfect car - with existing technology - for 90 % of drivers for 100% of their driving needs. So the little engine - that could - comes on during long trips. Who cares! Did anyone remember the first cell phone? It looked like a bloody BRICK! We do not have the battery and the infrastructure for pure EVs travelling long distances.
So let's stop agonizing over it! Let the chemists work the problem out. In the meanwhile PEVs (DIESEL/Electric?) will rule the world for the next 10+ years. If Mr.Toyoda does not wake up, Toyota will loose its edge. It is utterly stupid from Toyota not to offer PEV upgrades to the over a million Prius owners for say $3-5000 who LOVE their cars. We would test their new technology - on the road, under real driving conditions for free. What a marketing opportunity! Are these guys asleep!

Yes, I would spend between $3-5K to convert my 2008 to a PEV and maintain my warranty. For this offer I would work with Toyota to 'get the bugs out'.

Maybe my next car will be a Ford. (I owned a Ford Cortina - BRRRRRRRR! - but the world has changed.)

[DeadPhish]

Originally Posted by plug-it-in

I love my 2008 Prius. My only beef is that on short distances -go to store for milk? - it burns too much gas. There is too much yap about battery technology etc. Give my Prius a 60-80 km (40-60 mile) EV range with 8 hr (overnight recharge) and voila, you would have the perfect car - with existing technology - for 90 % of drivers for 100% of their driving needs. So the little engine - that could - comes on during long trips. Who cares! Did anyone remember the first cell phone? It looked like a bloody BRICK! We do not have the battery and the infrastructure for pure EVs travelling long distances.
So let's stop agonizing over it! Let the chemists work the problem out. In the meanwhile PEVs (DIESEL/Electric?) will rule the world for the next 10+ years. If Mr.Toyoda does not wake up, Toyota will loose its edge. It is utterly stupid from Toyota not to offer PEV upgrades to the over a million Prius owners for say $3-5000 who LOVE their cars. We would test their new technology - on the road, under real driving conditions for free. What a marketing opportunity! Are these guys asleep!

Yes, I would spend between $3-5K to convert my 2008 to a PEV and maintain my warranty. For this offer I would work with Toyota to 'get the bugs out'.

Maybe my next car will be a Ford. (I owned a Ford Cortina - BRRRRRRRR! - but the world has changed.)

This is one of the key points that's never ever discussed in all the techno-wish lists. Can the auto makers offer the same warranties on the Li-Ion PHEVs that they can on the ultra-reliable NiMH HEVs? Nobody has said a word on this subject; not Toyota, not Nissan, not GM, not Hyundai...nobody.


My own opinion is that the PHEV Prius will be a super niche vehicle at a significant premium to the standard Prius V for those that want such technology. This will be no different than offering a Prius V for those that want more features as compared to a Prius II for those that have no use for those features. Everyone is satisfied.

[drees]

Originally Posted by DeadPhish

Can the auto makers offer the same warranties on the Li-Ion PHEVs that they can on the ultra-reliable NiMH HEVs? Nobody has said a word on this subject; not Toyota, not Nissan, not GM, not Hyundai...nobody.

It's not a matter of "can". They will do it because it's required by law.

8 years / 100k miles for the Federal emissions warranty and 10 years / 150k miles for CARB states.

[Rybold]

Originally Posted by DeadPhish

Can the auto makers offer the same warranties on the Li-Ion PHEVs that they can on the ultra-reliable NiMH HEVs? Nobody has said a word on this subject; not Toyota, not Nissan, not GM, not Hyundai...nobody.

Toyota should offer the standard PHEV models with NiMH, and then offer a special "Lithium" edition with Li-Ion for a 6K premium. At least for now. The masses can have their NiMH PHEVs, and the few that enjoy spending their money can be our lab rats for the Li-Ions.

Originally Posted by plug-it-in

Give my Prius a 60-80 km (40-60 mile) EV range with 8 hr (overnight recharge) and voila, you would have the perfect car - with existing technology - for 90 % of drivers for 100% of their driving needs. So the little engine - that could - comes on during long trips. ... We do not have the battery and the infrastructure for pure EVs travelling long distances.
So let's stop agonizing over it! Let the chemists work the problem out. In the meanwhile PEVs (DIESEL/Electric?) will rule the world for the next 10+ years.

That is exactly how I feel and why I gave you a "thank you" under that post. I posted about a week or so ago that my ideal car would be a Porsche Carrera PHEV that obtained the MPG of a PHEV Prius as long as I drove with the flow of traffic, but if I decided I wanted a little more power every once in a while, it would be able to put out 300hp. And if while hypermiling the battery eventually runs out, I will still have a backup so that I can make it to my destination. The man on this forum that owns a pure EV Porsche replied "why wouldn't you want a pure electric???" The simple answer to that, as much as you may not like it, is that I don't want a pure electric in this decade. I want a PHEV. I want an EV/PHEV as long as I drive with the flow of traffic, but will be capable of being a 300hp sports car when I want it to be. And if I decide to drive up to the mountains for the weekend to go camping, I won't be tied down to an extension cord. In the future, things might change if battery cars can go 500 miles. I often drive more than 100 miles in a day. I like to drive. I like to go on trips. My 2004 Corolla has 119,000 miles on it right now. On my last tank of gasoline, I got 37mpg average, so those miles conserve fuel, but I like to drive and go places and do things with my life! Sometimes on a Friday evening I get a "spur of the moment" and decide to drive to another state and enjoy "the open road" and visiting national parks and enjoying the natural scenery of earth's geology. I need a car that can "keep going and going" on those trips. EV alone will not suffice. I need to be able to drop 500 miles into my car's energy reservoir (this is an additional reason (in addition to preventing global warming during my weekday commutes to work) that I am currently considering a 2010 Prius. I'm probably going to wait for the PHEV version though).
The 2010 Prius will go (50mpg)(12gal)=600miles.