Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor mats-LA TIMES

[philobeddoe]

you guys are hilarious

in the Lexus incident, the floor mat was OVER the accelerator and UNDER the brake

stomping on the brake forced the accelerator to the floor ... WOT

and he managed to glaze over the brakes

y'all giving advice about brakes winning over accelerator are giving advice that's going to get someone killed


as i've repeated like a broken record, shifting to Neutral is the solution in every car

if the car is carbureted, and you're stuck at WOT, you'll likely grenade the motor, unless you can quickly and safely stop and disengage the ignition

if your car is EFI, you'll bounce off the rev limiter but keep your engine intact

and if you have a Prius, you'll have nothing to worry about, because manually shifting to N disengages the transmission and the throttle

fyi ... pushing the PARK button in the Prius at 3mph or greater also shifts the car into Neutral ... much as attempting to shift any auto trans car into Park will shift the car into Neutral, because Reverse and Park are "locked out"

[philobeddoe]

Originally Posted by howardbc

I was appalled when my local Toyota dealer told me that there was no recall! He said to call an 800# so I did. A nice young man at a call center was going to read me the company spiel on floor mats, but finally, after I pressed him for specific help for a run-away car, he said to press the brake pedal hard with both feet, put the car in Neutral and hold down the Power button for 3 seconds. This just gets more and more strange and unsatisfactory all the time. I saw the photos of the crashed car in California and it had the same kind of floor mats that I had (until I removed them) but I still think that this has to be about more than just the floor mats.

it's not.

[bwilson4web]

While researching "Bell the Hybrid" activity in the Federal Register, I came across this:

http://frwebgate4.access.gpo.gov/cgi...ction=retrieve

Sorry for the wholesale quote but the contents are relevant and part of the public record (aka., not copyrighted):

. . .
The petitioner, Mr. Jeffrey Pepski of Plymouth, Minnesota, owns a
model year (MY) 2007 Lexus ES350 (VIN JTHBJ46G072131671). On March 12,
2009, Mr. Pepski filed a complaint with NHTSA (ODI No. 10261660)
alleging a ``sudden and uncontrollable surge in acceleration'' while
driving home from work on February 3, 2009:

Driving home from work, I experienced a sudden uncontrollable
surge in acceleration causing my speed to increase from about 60 mph
to 80+ mph. Immediately I began to brake hard as I was rapidly
approaching traffic just ahead of me. Fortunately the inside left
lane was unoccupied and I was able to make an immediate lane change.
Initially I depressed the brake pedal as hard as I could using both
feet but only managed to slow the vehicle to 40-45 mph. With my
speed reduced, I alternated between pumping the accelerator pedal
and pulling up on it from the underside with my right foot as it
became clear that the throttle was stuck in an open position. The
vehicle continued to speed back up to over 65 mph with less pressure
on the brake pedal.
With traffic just ahead of me, I moved over to the left shoulder
next to the center barrier and continued to try to release the open
throttle. There were clouds of smoke around the vehicle and the
smell of burning materials from the overheating brakes. After
finally getting the vehicle slowed down to about 25-30 mph, I
shifted into ``Neutral'' and depressed the start/stop push button a
number of times hoping to stop the engine but nothing happened.
Instead the RPMs moved up into the redline range on the tachometer.
I quickly shifted back into ``Drive''; the vehicle jolted and
rapidly accelerated to 60+ mph.
As the brakes were fading quickly, I was certain that I would
need to shift back into ``Neutral'' and let the engine blow up to
stop the vehicle. Suddenly the acceleration surge stopped and I was
able to bring the vehicle to a stop about 1[frac12] to 2 miles from
where it had started. I quickly shifted into ``Park'' and depressed
the start/stop push button to turn off the engine. The vehicle
seemed to shutter as I did so. Upon restarting the car, I drove
cautiously to Lexus of Wayzata a short distance away fully prepared
to shift into ``Neutral'' if the acceleration repeated. The car
remains there over 5 weeks later.

Following the incident, Mr. Pepski submitted a complaint to Toyota
and a claim to the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department, requesting
that Lexus repurchase his vehicle. According to Toyota, the Lexus
dealer service technician who inspected Mr. Pepski's vehicle after the
incident observed that the driver's side floor mat retaining clips were
not properly secured and ``the floor mat was in a position where it
could interfere with the operation and travel of the accelerator
pedal.'' \1\ Toyota denied Mr. Pepski's claim on March 10, 2009,
concluding that the event was caused by an out-of-position floor mat:
<SUP>2 3</SUP>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

\1\ Chris Tinto, Toyota Motor North America, Inc., letter to
Kathleen DeMeter, ODI, May 14, 2009, Response to the Petition for a
Defect Investigation Submitted by Jeffrey Pepski (see public file
for DP09-001).
\2\ Troy Higa, Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc., letter to Jeff
Pepski, March 10, 2009 (see public file for DP09-001).
\3\ The issue of accelerator pedal entrapment by an unsecured
floor mat in the subject vehicles is addressed by Recall 09V-388.

The inspection of your vehicle revealed no evidence of any
vehicle defects or malfunction. The throttle assembly and
accelerator pedal were operating as designed, with no binding or
sticking of any of the components. The brakes showed signs of
excessive wear which is consistent with what you described happened
to you.

[[Page 56687]]

The inspection also revealed that the floor mat was in a
position where it could interfere with the operation and travel of
the accelerator pedal. When the vehicle was taken in to the
dealership, the floor mat retaining clips were not properly secured
which allowed the floor mat to move out of position. While we
understand that you feel the floor mat was not the problem, the
evidence revealed during our inspection showed otherwise.

Bob Wilson

[neon tetra]

I didn't have time to read this entire thread yet, but.. are people still blaming the floor mats? I just saw a report that it's the computer that's to blame for a lot of these accidents.

[bwilson4web]

Originally Posted by neon tetra

I didn't have time to read this entire thread yet, but.. are people still blaming the floor mats? I just saw a report that it's the computer that's to blame for a lot of these accidents.

Unattributed source, the report is unlikely to be accurate.

Bob Wilson

[philobeddoe]

. . .
The petitioner, Mr. Jeffrey Pepski of Plymouth, Minnesota, owns a
model year (MY) 2007 Lexus ES350 (VIN JTHBJ46G072131671). On March 12,
2009, Mr. Pepski filed a complaint with NHTSA (ODI No. 10261660)
alleging a ``sudden and uncontrollable surge in acceleration'' while
driving home from work on February 3, 2009:

Driving home from work, I experienced a sudden uncontrollable
surge in acceleration causing my speed to increase from about 60 mph
to 80+ mph. Immediately I began to brake hard as I was rapidly
approaching traffic just ahead of me. Fortunately the inside left
lane was unoccupied and I was able to make an immediate lane change.
Initially I depressed the brake pedal as hard as I could using both
feet but only managed to slow the vehicle to 40-45 mph. With my
speed reduced, I alternated between pumping the accelerator pedal
and pulling up on it from the underside with my right foot as it
became clear that the throttle was stuck in an open position. The
vehicle continued to speed back up to over 65 mph with less pressure
on the brake pedal.
With traffic just ahead of me, I moved over to the left shoulder
next to the center barrier and continued to try to release the open
throttle. There were clouds of smoke around the vehicle and the
smell of burning materials from the overheating brakes. After
finally getting the vehicle slowed down to about 25-30 mph, I
shifted into ``Neutral'' and depressed the start/stop push button a
number of times hoping to stop the engine but nothing happened.
Instead the RPMs moved up into the redline range on the tachometer.
I quickly shifted back into ``Drive''; the vehicle jolted and
rapidly accelerated to 60+ mph.
As the brakes were fading quickly, I was certain that I would
need to shift back into ``Neutral'' and let the engine blow up to
stop the vehicle. Suddenly the acceleration surge stopped and I was
able to bring the vehicle to a stop about 1[frac12] to 2 miles from
where it had started. I quickly shifted into ``Park'' and depressed
the start/stop push button to turn off the engine. The vehicle
seemed to shutter as I did so. Upon restarting the car, I drove
cautiously to Lexus of Wayzata a short distance away fully prepared
to shift into ``Neutral'' if the acceleration repeated. The car
remains there over 5 weeks later.

Following the incident, Mr. Pepski submitted a complaint to Toyota
and a claim to the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department, requesting
that Lexus repurchase his vehicle. According to Toyota, the Lexus
dealer service technician who inspected Mr. Pepski's vehicle after the
incident observed that the driver's side floor mat retaining clips were
not properly secured and ``the floor mat was in a position where it
could interfere with the operation and travel of the accelerator
pedal.'' \1\ Toyota denied Mr. Pepski's claim on March 10, 2009,
concluding that the event was caused by an out-of-position floor mat:
<SUP>2 3</SUP>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

\1\ Chris Tinto, Toyota Motor North America, Inc., letter to
Kathleen DeMeter, ODI, May 14, 2009, Response to the Petition for a
Defect Investigation Submitted by Jeffrey Pepski (see public file
for DP09-001).
\2\ Troy Higa, Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc., letter to Jeff
Pepski, March 10, 2009 (see public file for DP09-001).
\3\ The issue of accelerator pedal entrapment by an unsecured
floor mat in the subject vehicles is addressed by Recall 09V-388.

The inspection of your vehicle revealed no evidence of any
vehicle defects or malfunction. The throttle assembly and
accelerator pedal were operating as designed, with no binding or
sticking of any of the components. The brakes showed signs of
excessive wear which is consistent with what you described happened
to you.

[[Page 56687]]

The inspection also revealed that the floor mat was in a
position where it could interfere with the operation and travel of
the accelerator pedal. When the vehicle was taken in to the
dealership, the floor mat retaining clips were not properly secured
which allowed the floor mat to move out of position. While we
understand that you feel the floor mat was not the problem, the
evidence revealed during our inspection showed otherwise.

now why after this "incident" would he restart the car and drive it to the dealership for service, rather than call in and have it towed?

i question his knowledge, his judgment, his experience, and his accurate recollection of the incident

why wouldn't he simply shift that car to neutral and brake to safety?

then if the floor mat was covering the accelerator it wouldn't matter as he braked because the engine would not send power to the transmission regardless of throttle position

and the motor wouldn't grenade because it would bounce off the rev limiter?

really, restart the car and drive it to the dealership?!

i no doubt BELIEVE that he BELIEVES that this is how it really happened, but this is FLOOR MAT + DRIVER ERROR

thank G-d no one was killed

this is going to be expensive for Toyota

[qbee42]

Originally Posted by neon tetra

I didn't have time to read this entire thread yet, but.. are people still blaming the floor mats? I just saw a report that it's the computer that's to blame for a lot of these accidents.

I heard it was a tractor beam from an alien spaceship.

Seriously, people will believe anything as long as it is sensational.

Tom

[neon tetra]

This is the report - Out of Control | Featured Videos | Comcast.net

May have been posted already. I'm gonna do some research & read the rest of this thread when I get home, but it doesn't look good.

One thing I predict though, since this is a Prius forum... will be a lot of people automatically saying it can't be the car.

For the record, I absolutely love my Prius. Best car I've ever owned. But if there is a problem w/ the computer, it's pretty scary.

[fuzzy1]

[clipped]

[philobeddoe]

Originally Posted by neon tetra

This is the report - Out of Control | Featured Videos | Comcast.net

May have been posted already. I'm gonna do some research & read the rest of this thread when I get home, but it doesn't look good.

One thing I predict though, since this is a Prius forum... will be a lot of people automatically saying it can't be the car.

For the record, I absolutely love my Prius. Best car I've ever owned. But if there is a problem w/ the computer, it's pretty scary.

i hardly think you're getting knee jerk support of toyota because it's a prius board

i don't have a scintilla of loyalty for toyota simply because i own a prius ...

the car has a number of indefensible flaws, but engine surging isn't one of them

look, if it's the car, then i want it replaced, repaired, exchanged, refunded

i'm not defending a car manufacturer out of brand loyalty

automatically saying it's the car?

ever read malcolm gladwell's book "BLINK?"

there's enough information for an informed consumer to understand the situation, without leaping to the unlikely, the improbable, the more "complex" explanation, the conspiracy and the cover up