Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor mats-LA TIMES

[Salsawonder]

Originally Posted by galaxee

it sounds to me like runaway acceleration of media-driven hysteria.

Totally agree. It is convenient to jump on the band wagon at this point in time. I still cannot believe this accident has caused this level of agitation.

[Shawn Clark]

Originally Posted by Salsawonder

Totally agree. It is convenient to jump on the band wagon at this point in time. I still cannot believe this accident has caused this level of agitation.

The CHP was pushing this from the very start so I'm not surprised. They put all their chips on this guy before they knew what happened, producing a lynch mob mentality. It was damned irresponsible and unprofessional of them. And it has turned out that they were wrong.

[blueumbrella]

Originally Posted by DeadPhish

Reality check.

Reality check. When some neutral investigative body comes up with real solid data....then I'll believe that the problem is something other than the floormats.

Reality check- your opinion does not make this any less true. Not sure why you do not believe the people in this report. It seems to me that you are saying if it did not happen to you or someone you know it did not happen. IMO, the fact that no one on this site (including myself) reported having experienced this problem does not diminish the validity of what happened to these people.

[philobeddoe]

I was a skeptic too ... until a surging Prius ran over my unicorn.

[Shawn Clark]

Originally Posted by blueumbrella

Reality check- your opinion does not make this any less true. Not sure why you do not believe the people in this report. It seems to me that you are saying if it did not happen to you or someone you know it did not happen. IMO, the fact that no one on this site (including myself) reported having experienced this problem does not diminish the validity of what happened to these people.

Quadruple reality check for you: these "unintended acceleration" reports RARELY pan out as a systematic vehicle problem. You've got a better chance buying lotto tickets.

The burden of proof here is on those claiming it is a vehicle problem. Since their star case is one that the neutral investingating body indicates was a floormat problem you don't have much room to maneuver.

[71Corolla]

Originally Posted by adrianblack

That is most likely. Consumer reports put up a video of them testing the scenarios.

On a Toyota Venza, the brakes were not strong enough to stop the car at WOT @ 60mph. (Though it slowed.) If you pump the brakes, without assist the car would accelerate past 60mph

How to stop a runaway car: Don?t pump the brakes: Consumer Reports Cars Blog

Thanks for the video, I found that very interesting. What I was not sure on is how hard the driver was pressing on the brake during full throttle. But if the cars brakes were not able to overpower the engine at full throttle, that concerns me that either the brakes are not powerful enough, or the software just doesn't allow it to happen.

On that note, I did NOT like the fact that when he pumped the brakes during full throttle, it essentially put the ABS system into a condition where the brakes no longer did anything. I consider that a VERY very bad bit of programming, why would Toyota do that? Am I missing something here? Did the engineers not think of it or consider this set of events important?

The VW system was far better, even at full throttle just slam on the brakes and the car stops very quickly. How did Toyota not see fit to implement such a system? And I have to reiterate, the failure of the brakes to overpower the engine is very concerning to me. This should never happen.

edit - it's not an ABS issue it's the fact that the brake booster runs out of vacuum when the engine is at full throttle.

[fuzzy1]

Originally Posted by Shawn Clark

... Since their star case is one that the neutral investingating body indicates was a floormat problem you don't have much room to maneuver.

To which star case and neutral investigating body are you referring?

I don't yet see any neutral investigating body report indicating a cause of the Lexus ES350 crash in San Diego involving the CHP officer and family.

A NHTSA engineer wrote a Vehicle and Crash Site Inspection report for this incident. It did not investigate or draw conclusions on root cause.

Separately, NHTSA has denied a petition requesting investigation of a February incident, as it has plenty of material investigating earlier cases and anticipates nothing new in this one. This filing has no connect whatsoever with the San Diego case.

The burden of proof is on those claiming a problem. But the opposition is putting great effort into convicting and executing the accused before the investigators can make their official findings.

[blueumbrella]

Originally Posted by Shawn Clark

Quadruple reality check for you: these "unintended acceleration" reports RARELY pan out as a systematic vehicle problem. You've got a better chance buying lotto tickets.

The burden of proof here is on those claiming it is a vehicle problem. Since their star case is one that the neutral investingating body indicates was a floormat problem you don't have much room to maneuver.

I appreciate your reality check is opinion and not fact. I have no reason not to believe these people. Do you have additional information which is not in the report? Do you have some reason you doubt these people's testimony? What you may or may not know about other reports has nothing to do with the experience these people had.

[philobeddoe]

Originally Posted by blueumbrella

I appreciate your reality check is opinion and not fact. I have no reason not to believe these people. Do you have additional information which is not in the report? Do you have some reason you doubt these people's testimony? What you may or may not know about other reports has nothing to do with the experience these people had.

i have a reason

i choose not to believe things that have never happened until they actually happen and they have not happened

when it actually happens, then i will believe it, and give credence to reports of it happening

until then ... no


oh, and the notion that a major automobile manufacturer would cover up this problem is preposterous

the consequences of covering up such a mess far outweigh the consequences of investigating, admitting and curing the problem

we all love a good conspiracy, but these dots don't connect

next

[DeadPhish]

Originally Posted by blueumbrella

Reality check- your opinion does not make this any less true. Not sure why you do not believe the people in this report. It seems to me that you are saying if it did not happen to you or someone you know it did not happen. IMO, the fact that no one on this site (including myself) reported having experienced this problem does not diminish the validity of what happened to these people.

Neither you nor I know if any of these are true or not. You can believe them if you wish but until I see real data from an impartial source I'm skeptical.

The question is 'What happened?'. The reports to which you refer have no factual basis and no data to support them. Essentially they're hearsay.