Ford-Toyota Patents

[Aegison]

I've seen a number of references to "Ford buying Toyota technology" etc. The excerpt below shows what really occurred (it concurs with what I heard from an engineer who's involved in it).


"Ford versus Toyota -- The Hybrid Technology War of Words
There's a rumor going around that Ford is using Toyota-patented technology in their hybrid vehicles. The insinuation is that Ford is incapable of engineering their own competitive hybrid, so they are using Toyota's. According to Gil -- and this represents the official Ford Motor Company stance -- the rumor is completely untrue.
"When we started developing our hybrid system, it was the normal course of business to do a patent search," Gil explained. "We realized that some of our ideas might infringe on Toyota's hybrid patents. We contacted them. It just so happened that Toyota was developing some diesel engine technology that might infringe on existing patents owned by Ford. The companies decided to allow the patent infringement as kind of a trade."



source:
How To Drive For 100 MPG

[Fstr911]

Interesting post here Aegison. Tried Snopes and nothing there.

I'm looking forward to seeing if this a rumor or fact. Somehow I think we'll never know unless your Detroit connections are reliable.

[DeadPhish]

Originally Posted by Fstr911

Interesting post here Aegison. Tried Snopes and nothing there.

I'm looking forward to seeing if this a rumor or fact. Somehow I think we'll never know unless your Detroit connections are reliable.

Old old news. Both Toyota and Ford have stated the very same for some time now. Non-issue.

[hampdenwireless]

This one comes up almost as often as the stupid "Hummer is better for the environment then the Prius" article. Its just not true.

Source link below:

"The reality is that Ford independently developed its own hybrid system at the same time Toyota was doing its own. The basic architecture of both systems is the same and both are based on the concepts developed and patented by TRW engineers in the late 1960s. When Ford introduced the Escape Hybrid, Toyota went after the Blue Oval for infringing on its patents. Ford had patents of its own on the technology that Toyota was using. Eventually, the two companies reached a cross-licensing agreement that gives both companies the right to build their own systems. Such cross-licensing agreements are common in these kinds of cases, but Ford did not use the Toyota hybrid system. The only other company that uses Toyota's system is Nissan for its Altima hybrid, and they actually buy hardware from Toyota. We continue deconstructing Reynolds' arguments after the jump"

from:

EDITORIAL: Attention Wall Street Journal - Ford does not use Toyota's hybrid system! — Autoblog Green

[DeadPhish]

Originally Posted by hampdenwireless

This one comes up almost as often as the stupid "Hummer is better for the environment then the Prius" article. Its just not true.

Source link below:

"The reality is that Ford independently developed its own hybrid system at the same time Toyota was doing its own. The basic architecture of both systems is the same and both are based on the concepts developed and patented by TRW engineers in the late 1960s. When Ford introduced the Escape Hybrid, Toyota went after the Blue Oval for infringing on its patents. Ford had patents of its own on the technology that Toyota was using. Eventually, the two companies reached a cross-licensing agreement that gives both companies the right to build their own systems. Such cross-licensing agreements are common in these kinds of cases, but Ford did not use the Toyota hybrid system. The only other company that uses Toyota's system is Nissan for its Altima hybrid, and they actually buy hardware from Toyota. We continue deconstructing Reynolds' arguments after the jump"

from:

EDITORIAL: Attention Wall Street Journal - Ford does not use Toyota's hybrid system! — Autoblog Green

This^^^^

[Rybold]

Patent sharing is actually common in the automotive industry. Prior to any issue ever arising regarding hybrids, I had read numerous articles about engine and transmission technology where different automakers had patents on different aspects of the vehicles but instead of licensing to each other, they agreed to leave each other alone. There is actually a term for this in the auto industry. I forget the term, but there is one.

[Aegison]

Times have certainly changed as to technology sharing.

In the latter 1970's and for some time beyond:

• Fed Gov't was trying to break-up GM because it had a monopoly
• Ford-GM-Chrysler staff couldn't visit their counterparts at the other companies without taking along both an attorney (to tell you what you could / couldn't say), and usually also a steno.
• Technology sharing was a no-no in most cases -- including air bags etc (hence the heavy use of suppliers for engineering etc.)

In more recent years, no one cares very much which "big-3" execs talk to one another. Interestingly, and showing the extent of the change in views on monopoly (not to mention dramatic falls in market share), Ford-GM-Chrysler labor negotiators spend about a year working together on positions for upcoming UAW negotiations. From the UAW side, that's never been a problem. Pattern settlements, plus their research/negotiation specialists servicing all their locations, have never been thought of as monopolistic.

And, best of all, some time ago, the "big-3" had a joint engineering effort for battery & other items for electric and hybrid auto's.

By contrast, Japan provided seed money to its auto companies to aid in development of certain common needs such as seat belts etc. When one got it right, it had to license it to the others per the gov't.

Of course, technology travels in other ways as well. All over the news recently has been the story about the engineer who supposedly stole Ford secrets & gave them to Chinese co's or whatever.

But it's not commonly known that Chrysler's first, ground-breaking mini-van was engineered at Ford. It was ready to the point that if mgt. gave the ok, Ford would have started getting tooling ready.

But, Henry II wouldn't go for it, supposedly because Ford would have had to borrow to do the project. So Ford didn't go for it. When Iacoca went to Chrysler after Henry II fired him, he quickly hired away the engineers who had worked on the mini-van ... it's debatable whether they took blueprints and specs with them :-)

[DaveinOlyWA]

initially, Ford paid royalties for certain aspects of the first gen FEH. they have long since moved away from that technology. also, a note, Ford developed their technology on their own. i'm sure a little reverse engineering gave them some ideas and what not...like who doesnt do that??

to prevent a possible lawsuit, Ford paid Toyota royalties but most of the technology was on Gen 1 Pri's that Toyota was no longer using anyway.

[usbseawolf2000]

"The companies decided to allow the patent infringement as kind of a trade."

That's some very careful wording. Cross-licensing is still licensing. Instead of paying with $$, you pay with another patent.

When the first gen Escape Hybrid came out in 2004, Prius was already in second gen (3rd gen in Japan). The first gen Prius came out in 1997.

The question is when did the development of EH started? Before or after the first Prius came out? That's what I want to know.

[ShellyT]

The question really is how much tech did Ford use from the Supercar and another govt projects under the Clinton administration in the Escape? Those programs were running alongside Toyota's hybrid development. Some rumors have Toyota and Honda starting their hybrid programs because of them.