Calling all former full-size pickup truck drivers

Stranger · 11-10-2005, 10:56 AM

Hello,

I need some help!!! . . I'm driving my wife crazy analyzing this situation to death so she recommended that I ask you experts:

I currently own/drive a 2003 Ford F150 SuperCrew. I've been reading both Prius Chat and Prius Online for months now and I'm seriously considering placing an order for a 2006 Prius, but while I know I will love the gas mileage and all the gadgets of the Prius, I'm concerned over whether or not I'll miss the room and functionality I have in my truck.

Here's what I've figured out so far:

- The gas savings alone will be approximately $1,845 a year. I came up with this figure using approx. 15,000 miles a year at $2.50 per gallon, and using 45 MPG for the Prius and 14 MPG for the truck. (I know I might be able to get a little better in the Prius.)

- We're moving to Los Angeles next year and being able to drive in the HOV lanes will make a much better commute in the Prius.

- I owe about $16,000 on the truck and figure the Prius will cost me about $30,000 out the door with all the little extras I would want to add. It'll take some time to even out, but in the long run the financially smart bet is the Prius because in five years I'll end up saving approximatley $4,000.

------------------------------------------------------

Here are the pros and cons of each vehicle (as I see it):

- Gain of the navigation system in the Prius. A big plus!!!

- The Prius is better for the environment, comes with tax breaks, etc.

- Loss of room/seating capacity in the Prius. I can fit six in the truck (five comfortably) vs. four comfortably in the Prius. But, I'm normally the only one in my truck!!!

- Loss of towing and hauling ability. I don't haul a lot, but I do have to pick up gas for the lawn mower, take the dogs (two Jack Russells) to the vet, etc. (I know I can put the dogs in the Prius, but I'm a neat freak and don't like gas fumes and dog hair all inside my vehicles.

- Another big question is which is really safer for my kids? I believe that if I was in a wreck with the other, my preference would be to be in the truck.

Any opinions on this are/will be appreciated!!!!

Mystery Squid · 11-10-2005, 11:30 AM

I turned in my '01 F-150 Lariat for the Prius back in May.

To answer your question though, I miss it A BUNCH. Particularly since I'm STILL in MA, and not in Tampa, as I had expected, and winter is around the corner. I guess, like you, I hauled a lot of stuff, but nothing that ever really required "full" use of a bed. I'd take my bike up to the track every now and then, but not nearly enough to justify any significant "hauling".

On the other hand, I take perverse pleasure in driving the Pri... I like it, but what I really like, is not going up to the pump every 3 to 4 days and spending anywhere from $48-$60, I'm sure you know that feeling well...

So I guess I'd sum it up this way:

I loved the truck, but I'm happy I got the Prius, and thoroughly enjoy driving it. However, I'll admit, should gas drop to something like $1.25, I might very well be back at that Ford dealership...

jayman · 11-10-2005, 11:34 AM

I got rid of a 2000 GMC Sierra SLT 4x4 to get my Prius. I used to tow a 7,400 lb trailer but sold it when I got sick and tired of towing this contraption behind me, paying to hook it up, etc. Plus I finally built the new home at my hobby farm so really didn't need this tin box anyway.

Also that GMC was a putrid P.O.S. Mine happened to be one of the bad "knockers" or Piston Slap or Carbon Deposits or whatever the hell GM blames it on. 5,000km on the odometer and it was knocking like a diesel, burning oil, etc. All "normal" according to The General. Fah.

As far as "safety" issues bigger isn't always better. Obviousely if an H2 or a Quad Cab blows a red light and t-bones your Prius, the Prius and occupants will end up in a bad way.

Of course, since kinetic energy states that KE=1/2 Mass x velocity squared, the mass of the object must also be managed. As long as your vehicle is bigger and heavier than whatever else you crash into, you will force the smaller lighter object to absorb more of the crash energy.

Put two pickup trucks head on and the results are much different: there is a LOT more energy that must be managed. In an "extreme" case of hitting a very solid and immovable object that won't absorb much or any of the crash forces - say a thick concrete wall or a granite rock cut - the pickup or SUV will do worse than the light car.

Again, in that scenario, the small light car has much less mass so less energy to manage. The heavier pickup or SUV has much more energy to manage in such a crash.

Also consider that many pickups and SUV's are exempt from even minimum government regulations regarding cab strength, so in a rollover the cab gets pancaked. If you look at the stats, pickup trucks and SUV's are involved in a disproportionate number of single vehicle rollover incidents.

Some forum members have suggested I've quoted "rare" or "non real world" crashes. Well, you can point your browser to The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, the NHTSA, or other government agencies, to verify this data.

More than likely you will be rear-ended at a stop sign or red light. Physics will again apply: if a large heavy vehicle is rear ended by a small light vehicle, the small light vehicle will receive the most damage. If the small light vehicle is rear ended by the large heavy vehicle, the small light vehicle again will receive the most damage.

At the same red light, have a large heavy vehicle rear ended by another large heavy vehicle: both are heavily damaged. As an extreme example, it doesn't matter what you drive, if you happen to get rear ended by a semi truck, you're toast anyway.

Here are some sites for more information on crash safety:

http://www.hwysafety.org/research/fatality...argetrucks.html

Note the following that for single vehicle fatality, 49% of them in SUV's are due to rollover, compared to 19% in cars.

http://www.hwysafety.org/research/fatality.../occupants.html

For the above link, there are many interesting cohorts for type of vehicle, type of impact, etc that tends to reinforce the fact that a large heavy pickup or SUV is only an "advantage" in a multiple vehicle crash involving smaller vehicles

http://www.safercar.gov/RollRatings2.cfm

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NC...003/809-586.pdf

If you're curious how the Prius does in a "real world" offset crash, it was tested by the New Car Assessment Programme in the EU:

http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_rat...p?id1=3&id2=193

So overall I'm glad I got rid of my pickup and went to a Prius. Especially given the fact that my Prius spends 90% of its life zipping around in WInnipeg city traffic. Ever try to wrestle a pickup in city traffic? Never again.

Teagan'sDad · 11-10-2005, 11:38 AM

Perfect question as I am seriously debating trading my 2003 Dodge Ram 2500 QC in on a Prius this week. I only average 12.5 mpg in my truck now and simply have become fed up with that number. Hopefully more people will chime in.

LaughingMan · 11-10-2005, 11:42 AM

The one thing I'll add is that I shudder at the thought that a bigger vehicle is always safer than a smaller one...

I really don't like that sentiment. It may be true to protect those in the cabin, but the more larger vehicles on the road, the collective safety of all of the other motorists and pedestrians out there are lowered.

It's escalation... everyone else has bigger vehicles, so I need a vehicle twice as big to be safe... it's mutually assured destruction...

I don't like that sentiment... there's more to safety than what happens to you and who's in your cabin. What about the pedestrian impact? Etc..

Mystery Squid · 11-10-2005, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jayman@Nov 10 2005, 12:34 PM
As far as "safety" issues bigger isn't always better. Obviousely if an H2 or a Quad Cab blows a red light and t-bones your Prius, the Prius and occupants will end up in a bad way.

Of course, since kinetic energy states that KE=1/2 Mass x velocity squared, the mass of the object must also be managed. As long as your vehicle is bigger and heavier than whatever else you crash into, you will force the smaller lighter object to absorb more of the crash energy.

Put two pickup trucks head on and the results are much different: there is a LOT more energy that must be managed. In an "extreme" case of hitting a very solid and immovable object that won't absorb much or any of the crash forces - say a thick concrete wall or a granite rock cut - the pickup or SUV will do worse than the light car.

Again, in that scenario, the small light car has much less mass so less energy to manage. The heavier pickup or SUV has much more energy to manage in such a crash.

Also consider that many pickups and SUV's are exempt from even minimum government regulations regarding cab strength, so in a rollover the cab gets pancaked. If you look at the stats, pickup trucks and SUV's are involved in a disproportionate number of single vehicle rollover incidents.

Some forum members have suggested I've quoted "rare" or "non real world" crashes. Well, you can point your browser to The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, the NHTSA, or other government agencies, to verify this data.

More than likely you will be rear-ended at a stop sign or red light. Physics will again apply: if a large heavy vehicle is rear ended by a small light vehicle, the small light vehicle will receive the most damage. If the small light vehicle is rear ended by the large heavy vehicle, the small light vehicle again will receive the most damage.

At the same red light, have a large heavy vehicle rear ended by another large heavy vehicle: both are heavily damaged. As an extreme example, it doesn't matter what you drive, if you happen to get rear ended by a semi truck, you're toast anyway.

Nice to see I could help with a "refinement" of your earlier argument. Jaaaay... Um, could we also get some more formula's, they sound pretty cool too...

alsgameroom · 11-10-2005, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stranger@Nov 10 2005, 11:56 AM

- I'm a neat freak and don't like gas fumes and dog hair all inside my vehicles.

[snapback]153530[/snapback]

get a large plastic tub with a tight snap on lid at big box mart

put your gas container in that. put the whole thing in the back of the prius.

Al

ps

big box mart is at www.jibjab.com).

Kiloran · 11-10-2005, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alsgameroom@Nov 10 2005, 12:43 PM
get a large plastic tub with a tight snap on lid at big box mart

put your gas container in that. put the whole thing in the back of the prius.

Al

psbig box mart is at www.jibjab.com).

[snapback]153556[/snapback]

Don't apply this technique with the dogs though. :P

tumbleweed · 11-10-2005, 11:55 AM

All good questions I think. I was able to keep my old pickup so I have both and I'll use the truck when it snows or when I get gas for the lawn mower. If you absolutely have to haul lawn mower gas in a Prius I would suggest leaving the windows down and buying it as close to home as you can. As far as dogs are concerned I have one (obviously) and I figure I can clean up anything he does. There is even a vacuum cleaner topic around here somwhere. I haven't bought seatcovers (yet) I just put a blanket over the rear seat and taught him to stay back there.

I have always considered automotive safety from the point of view that, if I have to choose, it is better to plan on avoiding an accident than surviving one. That means it is mostly up to the driver, and a smaller more manuverable car may be a plus. If you do have a wreck, and I realize somtimes they can't be avoided, the prius may be a pretty safe car to be in. Just my opinion based on what I've read here and other places. Thankfully I have no personal experience with that.

Good luck with your decision and be sure to let us know what you decide, and why.

Stranger · 11-10-2005, 11:58 AM

I appreciate everyone's honest feedback so far . . . I hope all of us current truck owners on the verge of buying a Prius will continue to receive more and more honest inputs from everyone.

. . . although I included it as one of my points, please don't let this thread get too wrapped around the safety issue . . . I'm just as concerned about the other points as well.

Thanks!!!

11-10-2005, 11:34 AM	#3
jayman Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Posts: 6,210 My Car: 2004 Prius Package: B Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 4	I got rid of a 2000 GMC Sierra SLT 4x4 to get my Prius. I used to tow a 7,400 lb trailer but sold it when I got sick and tired of towing this contraption behind me, paying to hook it up, etc. Plus I finally built the new home at my hobby farm so really didn't need this tin box anyway. Also that GMC was a putrid P.O.S. Mine happened to be one of the bad "knockers" or Piston Slap or Carbon Deposits or whatever the hell GM blames it on. 5,000km on the odometer and it was knocking like a diesel, burning oil, etc. All "normal" according to The General. Fah. As far as "safety" issues bigger isn't always better. Obviousely if an H2 or a Quad Cab blows a red light and t-bones your Prius, the Prius and occupants will end up in a bad way. Of course, since kinetic energy states that KE=1/2 Mass x velocity squared, the mass of the object must also be managed. As long as your vehicle is bigger and heavier than whatever else you crash into, you will force the smaller lighter object to absorb more of the crash energy. Put two pickup trucks head on and the results are much different: there is a LOT more energy that must be managed. In an "extreme" case of hitting a very solid and immovable object that won't absorb much or any of the crash forces - say a thick concrete wall or a granite rock cut - the pickup or SUV will do worse than the light car. Again, in that scenario, the small light car has much less mass so less energy to manage. The heavier pickup or SUV has much more energy to manage in such a crash. Also consider that many pickups and SUV's are exempt from even minimum government regulations regarding cab strength, so in a rollover the cab gets pancaked. If you look at the stats, pickup trucks and SUV's are involved in a disproportionate number of single vehicle rollover incidents. Some forum members have suggested I've quoted "rare" or "non real world" crashes. Well, you can point your browser to The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, the NHTSA, or other government agencies, to verify this data. More than likely you will be rear-ended at a stop sign or red light. Physics will again apply: if a large heavy vehicle is rear ended by a small light vehicle, the small light vehicle will receive the most damage. If the small light vehicle is rear ended by the large heavy vehicle, the small light vehicle again will receive the most damage. At the same red light, have a large heavy vehicle rear ended by another large heavy vehicle: both are heavily damaged. As an extreme example, it doesn't matter what you drive, if you happen to get rear ended by a semi truck, you're toast anyway. Here are some sites for more information on crash safety: http://www.hwysafety.org/research/fatality...argetrucks.html Note the following that for single vehicle fatality, 49% of them in SUV's are due to rollover, compared to 19% in cars. http://www.hwysafety.org/research/fatality.../occupants.html For the above link, there are many interesting cohorts for type of vehicle, type of impact, etc that tends to reinforce the fact that a large heavy pickup or SUV is only an "advantage" in a multiple vehicle crash involving smaller vehicles http://www.safercar.gov/RollRatings2.cfm http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NC...003/809-586.pdf If you're curious how the Prius does in a "real world" offset crash, it was tested by the New Car Assessment Programme in the EU: http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_rat...p?id1=3&id2=193 So overall I'm glad I got rid of my pickup and went to a Prius. Especially given the fact that my Prius spends 90% of its life zipping around in WInnipeg city traffic. Ever try to wrestle a pickup in city traffic? Never again. __________________ 2004 Toyota Prius "B", Tideland Pearl 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser 5AT "C", Sun Fusion

11-10-2005, 11:42 AM	#5
LaughingMan Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Marlborough, MA Posts: 1,386 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	The one thing I'll add is that I shudder at the thought that a bigger vehicle is always safer than a smaller one... I really don't like that sentiment. It may be true to protect those in the cabin, but the more larger vehicles on the road, the collective safety of all of the other motorists and pedestrians out there are lowered. It's escalation... everyone else has bigger vehicles, so I need a vehicle twice as big to be safe... it's mutually assured destruction... I don't like that sentiment... there's more to safety than what happens to you and who's in your cabin. What about the pedestrian impact? Etc.. __________________ "I thought what I'd do was I'd pretend I was one of those deaf mutes... or should I?" 2005 Seaside Pearl Prius, with Nav. "Tachikoma"

11-10-2005, 11:55 AM	#9
tumbleweed Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Eastern Oregon Posts: 1,005 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	All good questions I think. I was able to keep my old pickup so I have both and I'll use the truck when it snows or when I get gas for the lawn mower. If you absolutely have to haul lawn mower gas in a Prius I would suggest leaving the windows down and buying it as close to home as you can. As far as dogs are concerned I have one (obviously) and I figure I can clean up anything he does. There is even a vacuum cleaner topic around here somwhere. I haven't bought seatcovers (yet) I just put a blanket over the rear seat and taught him to stay back there. I have always considered automotive safety from the point of view that, if I have to choose, it is better to plan on avoiding an accident than surviving one. That means it is mostly up to the driver, and a smaller more manuverable car may be a plus. If you do have a wreck, and I realize somtimes they can't be avoided, the prius may be a pretty safe car to be in. Just my opinion based on what I've read here and other places. Thankfully I have no personal experience with that. Good luck with your decision and be sure to let us know what you decide, and why. __________________ former Prius owner, waiting for a G III present car BMW 3 series

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11-10-2005, 10:56 AM	#1
Stranger Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: TN Posts: 19 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Hello, I need some help!!! . . I'm driving my wife crazy analyzing this situation to death so she recommended that I ask you experts: I currently own/drive a 2003 Ford F150 SuperCrew. I've been reading both Prius Chat and Prius Online for months now and I'm seriously considering placing an order for a 2006 Prius, but while I know I will love the gas mileage and all the gadgets of the Prius, I'm concerned over whether or not I'll miss the room and functionality I have in my truck. Here's what I've figured out so far: - The gas savings alone will be approximately $1,845 a year. I came up with this figure using approx. 15,000 miles a year at $2.50 per gallon, and using 45 MPG for the Prius and 14 MPG for the truck. (I know I might be able to get a little better in the Prius.) - We're moving to Los Angeles next year and being able to drive in the HOV lanes will make a much better commute in the Prius. - I owe about $16,000 on the truck and figure the Prius will cost me about $30,000 out the door with all the little extras I would want to add. It'll take some time to even out, but in the long run the financially smart bet is the Prius because in five years I'll end up saving approximatley $4,000. ------------------------------------------------------ Here are the pros and cons of each vehicle (as I see it): - Gain of the navigation system in the Prius. A big plus!!! - The Prius is better for the environment, comes with tax breaks, etc. - Loss of room/seating capacity in the Prius. I can fit six in the truck (five comfortably) vs. four comfortably in the Prius. But, I'm normally the only one in my truck!!! - Loss of towing and hauling ability. I don't haul a lot, but I do have to pick up gas for the lawn mower, take the dogs (two Jack Russells) to the vet, etc. (I know I can put the dogs in the Prius, but I'm a neat freak and don't like gas fumes and dog hair all inside my vehicles. - Another big question is which is really safer for my kids? I believe that if I was in a wreck with the other, my preference would be to be in the truck. Any opinions on this are/will be appreciated!!!!

11-10-2005, 11:30 AM	#2
Mystery Squid Junior Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I turned in my '01 F-150 Lariat for the Prius back in May. To answer your question though, I miss it A BUNCH. Particularly since I'm STILL in MA, and not in Tampa, as I had expected, and winter is around the corner. I guess, like you, I hauled a lot of stuff, but nothing that ever really required "full" use of a bed. I'd take my bike up to the track every now and then, but not nearly enough to justify any significant "hauling". On the other hand, I take perverse pleasure in driving the Pri... I like it, but what I really like, is not going up to the pump every 3 to 4 days and spending anywhere from $48-$60, I'm sure you know that feeling well... So I guess I'd sum it up this way: I loved the truck, but I'm happy I got the Prius, and thoroughly enjoy driving it. However, I'll admit, should gas drop to something like $1.25, I might very well be back at that Ford dealership...

11-10-2005, 11:38 AM	#4
Teagan'sDad Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Perfect question as I am seriously debating trading my 2003 Dodge Ram 2500 QC in on a Prius this week. I only average 12.5 mpg in my truck now and simply have become fed up with that number. Hopefully more people will chime in.

11-10-2005, 11:58 AM	#10
Stranger Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: TN Posts: 19 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I appreciate everyone's honest feedback so far . . . I hope all of us current truck owners on the verge of buying a Prius will continue to receive more and more honest inputs from everyone. . . . although I included it as one of my points, please don't let this thread get too wrapped around the safety issue . . . I'm just as concerned about the other points as well. Thanks!!!