Front Tire Wear

Schmika · 12-21-2005, 03:59 PM

I just find it hard to believe the Prius and 3 sets of tires can all be bad. I have been wrong before though...sometime in 1997 I think.

galaxee · 12-21-2005, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Schmika@Dec 21 2005, 03:59 PM
I have been wrong before though...sometime in 1997 I think.

[snapback]177032[/snapback]

NuShrike · 12-21-2005, 10:59 PM

I'm on 26K miles on the OEM tires. Not bald yet and I think they all pass the penny test still too.

They certainly do wear faster than the performance/OEM tires I've used on my Civic. I wonder if the extra body-roll of the Prius has something to do with this.

blondie · 06-18-2006, 07:35 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fishertheband @ Dec 21 2005, 12:51 AM) [snapback]176655[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Hi,

I posted here about 6 monts ago about my front tires wearing out after 15,000. The dealer then replaced all four and 4,000 later the fronts were worn out again (inside and ouside edges bald.)
The dealer replaced the front tires yet again and I had followed the suggestions here to inflate the fronts to 40psi, which I did...and it helped! I got nearly 4.600 miles this time before the front tires were bald again.

Today I went to Goodyear and bought 4 new tires and had them allign the front end. They said the allignment was 'out' around 27%.

Should this next set show normal (almost no) wear in 5,000 miles I'm going to have a little chat with my dealer. I would probably ask for a refund on my pre-paid service plan. (I also had my 1st 'out of dealer' oil change and after only 3,000 miles I was a quart and a half low....hmmmmm.) Luckily I'm in a position where I can chat with the heads of Toyota corporate should the dealer blow me off.

I'll let you all know what happens in a few months.

BTW - To answer some 'suggestions' in advance I received from some rather angry posters about this subject last time.

NO! I am not driving too fast.

NO! My mountain driving (curves) only involved around 260 miles per every 4,000 the car is driven.

NO! I do not regularly run into curbs, let the PSI get too low, or take the car off road.

And finally NO! I am not unhappy with the car in any way shape or form. This is just one little 'glitch" I've had with my Prius.
[/b]

kn6vv · 06-18-2006, 11:04 PM

Sorry to hear your alignment being out so bad! I guess my question now for all the Priuschat readers is their own Prius experience with alignment and tire wear.

I'm reading a number of posts on various threads on Priuschat.com about premature tire wear, needed shim kits for the rear alignment, and overall bad alignment problems and associated tire wear.

1) Are these isolated problems or common among Prius drivers?

2) Do those reporting problems believe that Toyota is not aligning them properly when delivered or is the Prius unable to hold a steady alignmen?

I'd love to hear your opinions on this. Thanks in advance!

Tom - KN6VV

================================================

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fishertheband @ Dec 20 2005, 11:51 PM) [snapback]176655[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Hi,

I posted here about 6 monts ago about my front tires wearing out after 15,000. The dealer then replaced all four and 4,000 later the fronts were worn out again (inside and ouside edges bald.)
The dealer replaced the front tires yet again and I had followed the suggestions here to inflate the fronts to 40psi, which I did...and it helped! I got nearly 4.600 miles this time before the front tires were bald again.

Today I went to Goodyear and bought 4 new tires and had them allign the front end. They said the allignment was 'out' around 27%.

Should this next set show normal (almost no) wear in 5,000 miles I'm going to have a little chat with my dealer. I would probably ask for a refund on my pre-paid service plan. (I also had my 1st 'out of dealer' oil change and after only 3,000 miles I was a quart and a half low....hmmmmm.) Luckily I'm in a position where I can chat with the heads of Toyota corporate should the dealer blow me off.

I'll let you all know what happens in a few months.

BTW - To answer some 'suggestions' in advance I received from some rather angry posters about this subject last time.

NO! I am not driving too fast.

NO! My mountain driving (curves) only involved around 260 miles per every 4,000 the car is driven.

NO! I do not regularly run into curbs, let the PSI get too low, or take the car off road.

And finally NO! I am not unhappy with the car in any way shape or form. This is just one little 'glitch" I've had with my Prius.
[/b]

tumbleweed · 06-19-2006, 10:20 PM

I have been fighting an alignment problem with mine for the last month or so, I have had five alignments and have another scheduled. I found one Toyota dealer whose alignment equipment was wrong by a tenth of a degree or more for the toe measurement. This is enough to cause quite a bit of tire wear and make the car very difficult to drive. When I called to give them a heads up they became quite defensive and refused to admit they might have a problem with their equipment. So don't believe what your told unless you can have it verified by another shop. The best alignment technicians I have been able to find around here are at a tire dealer that has fairly new Hunter equipment.

Rear wheel alignment can be a real problem, there are no adjustments. The Toyota region here will want to replace the rear axle beam if it's way out which mine was. That's when my problems started because the new axle made the car extremely unstable. The rear toe went from toed in to much on one side to toed out to much on the other. Problem is toed in is stable; toed out is unstable. I went from having one of the best driving Priuses to one of the worst. But it is now "in spec" just barely but it's in so the Toyota dealer really doesn't want to do any more with it. Now it will change lanes without moving the steering wheel when it's a bit windy out.

Thanks to some badly needed expert advise from a couple of Prius Chatters (Galaxee and DH) I am trying to fix the problem myself with shims. The Toyota dealer won't help because manufactured shims are apparently unavailable for the Prius. They either can't or will not try to make any.

I tried to buy shims from a couple of the dealers mentioned here but neither will answer emails.

If I were on my own I think I would have to sell the car But thanks to Galaxee and DH and some old timers that work at alignment shops around here I think I'll be able to fix it.

galaxee · 06-19-2006, 10:46 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kn6vv @ Jun 18 2006, 11:04 PM) [snapback]273274[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Sorry to hear your alignment being out so bad! I guess my question now for all the Priuschat readers is their own Prius experience with alignment and tire wear.

I'm reading a number of posts on various threads on Priuschat.com about premature tire wear, needed shim kits for the rear alignment, and overall bad alignment problems and associated tire wear.

1) Are these isolated problems or common among Prius drivers?

2) Do those reporting problems believe that Toyota is not aligning them properly when delivered or is the Prius unable to hold a steady alignmen?

[/b]

well my husband is a mechanic at a dealership, and he does see more problems with prius alignments than with other cars. the back wheels are just annoying because they're not adjustable, and the fronts lose alignment pretty easily. he's given it plenty of thought and his theory is that the difference in brake force application in regenerative vs conventional braking cause this phenomenon.

cars are not aligned as a part of the predelivery inspection. however, they do offer one free alignment early in ownership because it's known that the tie-downs on the shipping truck can f up the alignment during transit.

tmorrowus · 06-20-2006, 02:23 AM

In case you don't know: Most tire/alignment places will sell lifetime alignment for under $200. I paid $160, and others have paid significantly less. I bought the package and got my money's worth by having alignment checks done at 10k, 20k, and 30k miles. The alignment tested within specs at 10k and 20k, but at 30k needed a significant correction on the front.

Also, some places will sometimes offer free or low cost alignment checks. Getting the alignment done at the dealer seems to be most unreliable and most expensive.

My experience with the Goodyears is that they wear fast but evenly with rotation. I got 30k miles on mine and the wear was very even. I inflated to 42/40.

If you find the front are wearing faster than the rear, an obvious workaround is to check tire depth often and rotate as soon as they start getting worse in the front. At least that way you'll go twice as long before needing replacements.

But I've never heard of alignment causing the inside and outside to both wear before the middle, I've only heard of underinflation causing that. You might consider inflating to the maximum rated tire pressure if this continues; even if underinflation isn't the root cause it should help even the wear.

tnthub · 06-20-2006, 08:32 AM

If the inside and outside edges of the tread pattern are what is worn, the cause is likely too little air pressure. When a radial tire has too little air it is prone to cupping when weight is transferred onto that tire. I am not an expert on the Prius but I have heard of front tire wear complaints and my normal response would be for a few folks to add a couple of pounds and see what happens. Dealer recommened pressures are a guideline, not an absolute.

I am one of those idiots who plays with tire pressures frequently and I have a decent amount of practice with different tires, different sidewalls, bias and radial designs... But limted experience with the prius.

What I do know is this... If a tire is at the proper inflation for the vehicle, and I assume the proper size tire for the rim, then as weight increases or decreases on the front of the car, the footprint, or contact patch area, has a constant pressure all the way across. Too much air and the contact is greater in the middle of the patch and too little air results in more contact at the outside edges and less in the center.

Air pressures on a standard radial tire, even slightly less than normal, may result in poorer cornering. Too much air pressure can potentially result in a harsher ride and less traction, especially in a front wheel drive vehicle under acceleration as the weight is offloaded from the front to the rear.

Avoid gas station tire gauges. Buy your own gauge and only use that one. I like the digital gauges that will read in 1/2 pound increments and are backlit for night use. If you are serious about tire pressure check the tires when you fill the tank which isn't very often in a Prius. You do not need to buy an expensive gauge, just one that works the same way every time. It only needs to be consistent in relation to inself to be of value.

06-19-2006, 10:20 PM	#16
tumbleweed Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Eastern Oregon Posts: 1,005 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I have been fighting an alignment problem with mine for the last month or so, I have had five alignments and have another scheduled. I found one Toyota dealer whose alignment equipment was wrong by a tenth of a degree or more for the toe measurement. This is enough to cause quite a bit of tire wear and make the car very difficult to drive. When I called to give them a heads up they became quite defensive and refused to admit they might have a problem with their equipment. So don't believe what your told unless you can have it verified by another shop. The best alignment technicians I have been able to find around here are at a tire dealer that has fairly new Hunter equipment. Rear wheel alignment can be a real problem, there are no adjustments. The Toyota region here will want to replace the rear axle beam if it's way out which mine was. That's when my problems started because the new axle made the car extremely unstable. The rear toe went from toed in to much on one side to toed out to much on the other. Problem is toed in is stable; toed out is unstable. I went from having one of the best driving Priuses to one of the worst. But it is now "in spec" just barely but it's in so the Toyota dealer really doesn't want to do any more with it. Now it will change lanes without moving the steering wheel when it's a bit windy out. Thanks to some badly needed expert advise from a couple of Prius Chatters (Galaxee and DH) I am trying to fix the problem myself with shims. The Toyota dealer won't help because manufactured shims are apparently unavailable for the Prius. They either can't or will not try to make any. I tried to buy shims from a couple of the dealers mentioned here but neither will answer emails. If I were on my own I think I would have to sell the car But thanks to Galaxee and DH and some old timers that work at alignment shops around here I think I'll be able to fix it. __________________ former Prius owner, waiting for a G III present car BMW 3 series

06-20-2006, 08:32 AM	#19
tnthub Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 463 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	If the inside and outside edges of the tread pattern are what is worn, the cause is likely too little air pressure. When a radial tire has too little air it is prone to cupping when weight is transferred onto that tire. I am not an expert on the Prius but I have heard of front tire wear complaints and my normal response would be for a few folks to add a couple of pounds and see what happens. Dealer recommened pressures are a guideline, not an absolute. I am one of those idiots who plays with tire pressures frequently and I have a decent amount of practice with different tires, different sidewalls, bias and radial designs... But limted experience with the prius. What I do know is this... If a tire is at the proper inflation for the vehicle, and I assume the proper size tire for the rim, then as weight increases or decreases on the front of the car, the footprint, or contact patch area, has a constant pressure all the way across. Too much air and the contact is greater in the middle of the patch and too little air results in more contact at the outside edges and less in the center. Air pressures on a standard radial tire, even slightly less than normal, may result in poorer cornering. Too much air pressure can potentially result in a harsher ride and less traction, especially in a front wheel drive vehicle under acceleration as the weight is offloaded from the front to the rear. Avoid gas station tire gauges. Buy your own gauge and only use that one. I like the digital gauges that will read in 1/2 pound increments and are backlit for night use. If you are serious about tire pressure check the tires when you fill the tank which isn't very often in a Prius. You do not need to buy an expensive gauge, just one that works the same way every time. It only needs to be consistent in relation to inself to be of value. __________________ 2002 Champion New England Dragway 2001 GM High Tech Shootout Winner 1999 Champion Oxford Dragway http://www.tntdragracing.com

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12-21-2005, 03:59 PM	#11
Schmika Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Xenia, OH Posts: 1,622 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I just find it hard to believe the Prius and 3 sets of tires can all be bad. I have been wrong before though...sometime in 1997 I think.

12-21-2005, 10:59 PM	#13
NuShrike my other Mobile Suit is a ... Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,367 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I'm on 26K miles on the OEM tires. Not bald yet and I think they all pass the penny test still too. They certainly do wear faster than the performance/OEM tires I've used on my Civic. I wonder if the extra body-roll of the Prius has something to do with this.

06-20-2006, 02:23 AM	#18
tmorrowus Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 425 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	In case you don't know: Most tire/alignment places will sell lifetime alignment for under $200. I paid $160, and others have paid significantly less. I bought the package and got my money's worth by having alignment checks done at 10k, 20k, and 30k miles. The alignment tested within specs at 10k and 20k, but at 30k needed a significant correction on the front. Also, some places will sometimes offer free or low cost alignment checks. Getting the alignment done at the dealer seems to be most unreliable and most expensive. My experience with the Goodyears is that they wear fast but evenly with rotation. I got 30k miles on mine and the wear was very even. I inflated to 42/40. If you find the front are wearing faster than the rear, an obvious workaround is to check tire depth often and rotate as soon as they start getting worse in the front. At least that way you'll go twice as long before needing replacements. But I've never heard of alignment causing the inside and outside to both wear before the middle, I've only heard of underinflation causing that. You might consider inflating to the maximum rated tire pressure if this continues; even if underinflation isn't the root cause it should help even the wear.