Fair Market Value from totaled 05 Prius

Jax53 · 12-29-2005, 06:47 PM

This is some way to have my first post on Prius Chat.
I have enjoyed reading the posts since my purchase of our 05 Prius #6. I am stating the obvious when I say that PC is an absolutely OUTSTANDING SOURCE of INFO for this vehicle.
Well anyway I have felt compelled to share the account of the accident my wife had in our new Prius. She was in a horrific head on collision on her way to work. She was going 35mph, and suddenly at the last moment the car in her facing lane crossed over and ran into her head on (nose to nose) the result was that our car was absolutely crushed at the crimple zones and the other car seemed to caram off of her in the air and land about 150 foot in the side of the road and to the glory of God both, her and the other driver walked away! She was taken to the ER and had no broken bones or eternal damage, just extensive bruises where her seat belts were!
As a result of this I don't need to share with you how sold we both are on this cars safety ratings from a head on. She was crushed about the car... My reaction was SO WHAT! Cars can be replaced, but she is my only princess!
This has aided me in having a special meaning to this Christmas as I have thanked the Lord Jesus for his providental protection of my wife...

Now the story with the insurance is another story...

They have been very helpful on the medical end, however when it comes to the replacement end I was shocked and offended by my insurance's offer of Fair Market Value for our prius that was totaled out.
At the moment of our wreck, our 05 prius (#6 w/navi) had 12,800 miles. We had owned it for 4 months. The adjuster said after doing their research they diserned that this vehicle's fair market replacement value is $23,400. I had already done some research on this myself and I stated to him how rediculous that offer was and to show him how insulting the offer was that I also had been doing some research and I had found 2 Katrina Storm salvaged 05 Prius #6's in autotrader w/ miles of 816, & 9,806 for $21,900 & $20,800, and you have the unmitagated gall to tell me that my vehicle that was in pristine shape was worth only $1,500. more?" His reaction was silence and then he stated, "Well those aren't in your area (Jax Fl.) Then I asked "Well what is your definition of Fair Market Value? He stated the price you could have personally sold your car for the day before the impact and besides he stated "they probably sell higher there" When I state that there is absolutely NO WAY that a 4 month old prius #6 COULD Be PURCHASED USED for $23,400! Then he made an inane comment about most buyers taking the first price that is offered to them by the dealer and do not know the art of negociation.
But he stated that he would go back to the company that does the Fair Market Value rates and see if there could be some mistake and he would be back w/ me next week. Well it looks like this is going to be a saga... so stay tuned...
But $23,400 Fair market value for a 4 month old prius #6 w/ 12,800miles?
If anyone knows of any other fair market values given by insurance companies for the prius I would love to know what your experience has been.
Robert T

engunneer · 12-29-2005, 07:05 PM

I'm very sorry to hear of your wife's crash, but I'm glad she's OK. As an engineer, I must ask the obvious (for me) question...

Do you have pictures?

I'm interested in crash safety and have seen one other head-on Prius picture (highway speed, here in Washington). From that picture alone, I knew that I was gladd that a Prius is what my wife and I would be in if something similar happened.

Thanks for sharing your story!

paprius4030 · 12-29-2005, 08:14 PM

Very sorry to hear about your ordel also. Basically since it was totally the other person's fault I would say you are intitled to a brand new Prius period, Mayyyybe minus so many cents a mile for the mileage on yours. I would tell the insurance company that if that don't replace your Prius with a NEW one that they can negotiate it with your lawyer, and that by the way I'm sure the lawyer will want to have your wife re-examined and wait awhile before settling to make sure she doesn't have any other injuries that take time to make themselves known. Then go get yourself a GOOD lawyer!

seasalsa · 12-29-2005, 08:44 PM

JAX53, Are you dealing with your insurance company or the other drivers? Your insurance company should negotiate with the other company in your interest. In any case don't sign a release on the possible injuries for at least 6 months and be sure to get a lawyer if they don't give you a better offer.

EricGo · 12-29-2005, 08:47 PM

FMV is what it will cost to replace your vehicle, in the shape it was in before your accident.

Call dealers in your area, and get prices. Since we both know that you will not find used Prius for sale with only a couple of thousand miles on the odometer, a new car will likely be the closest comparison vehicle. You may wish to check out dealers that are known to demand markups for immediate availability when listing your comps.

It is tempting to treat Insurance companies with the same contempt they often show customers by playing the PI game, but that is up to you and your conscience. It is however true that soft tissue injuries sometimes take weeks to become apparent, so do NOT sign any waiver of future demands until you are quite sure no medical problems are going to surface.

If the insurance company does not pay for your rental while things are being sorted out, treat them in kind.

Tempus · 12-29-2005, 08:50 PM

Well, I had a similar experience a while back. In fact, it has echoes of the current Prius situation.

in 1979 I had a 78 Rabbit Diesel stolen. Now if you'll remember, there was a gas crisis then too, and the Rabbit Diesel was the Prius of it's day. I could get 55 mpg highway without breaking a sweat. In fact they were so desired that they were being intenionally stolen all over the place.

The insurance company tried to lowball me. I said fine, if you think it can be replaced for that, you replace it. I want one the same color and options with the same or less mileage. Have at it, and let me know when you have it.

They wound up giving me $1K more than I paid for it in cash.

tunabreath · 12-29-2005, 08:52 PM

How awful, but I'm glad there were no serious injuries. It's a good thing your wife was wearing her seat belt.

Springtime · 12-29-2005, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jax53@Dec 29 2005, 07:47 PM
We had owned it for 4 months. The adjuster said after doing their research they diserned that this vehicle's fair market replacement value is $23,400. I had already done some research on this myself and I stated to him how rediculous that offer was and to show him how insulting the offer was that I also had been doing some research and I had found 2 Katrina Storm salvaged 05 Prius #6's in autotrader w/ miles of 816, & 9,806 for $21,900 & $20,800, and you have the unmitagated gall to tell me that my vehicle that was in pristine shape was worth only $1,500. more?" His reaction was silence and then he stated, "Well those aren't in your area (Jax Fl.) Then I asked "Well what is your definition of Fair Market Value? He stated the price you could have personally sold your car for the day before the impact and besides he stated "they probably sell higher there" When I state that there is absolutely NO WAY that a 4 month old prius #6 COULD Be PURCHASED USED for $23,400!

[snapback]180975[/snapback]

If you plan on replacing your car within the next two weeks you can probably get a new 2005 pkg#6 for a lot less than what you paid 4 months ago. Dealers here in PA are discounting substantially off of MSRP to get rid of them to make room for the 2006's.

I would suggest you call a few dealers and see if they have any leftovers where they can cut you a deal and will hold it while you negotiate with the insurance company. I just negotiated a 2005 pkg #6 for $26k plus tax and tags. Cash outlay will be $28K. With rebates and tax credits it will cost me just under $24K.

Now suppose the dealer can get you a 2005 pkg #6 for $26K plus tax and tags. Counter the insurance offer at $26K (don't mention the tax credit) and tell them you are still out $2K in order to replace your car. They may bring up their offer just to settle quickly. You buy a new 2005, take the tax credit next year and you should come out ahead on the deal.

Springtime

PS Sorry you had an accident, but, glad your spouse is doing OK.

Jax53 · 12-29-2005, 10:20 PM

Double post sorry... typical of a rookie poster!

Jax53 · 12-29-2005, 10:49 PM

Thanks for the replys
Again I am so grateful that my wife survived this accident...
She was going 35mph she was hit by the vehicle going 40 mph...
THAT WAS AN IMPACT OF 75mph! The airbags and the crimple zones of the prius were absolutely phenomenal. It happened so quickly that she never even had time to take her foot off the accelerator... Being early morning the first thing she realized was that there were headlights directly in front of her in her lane... It happened so fast that she said her next realization was that she had an airbag in her face.
Several hours later after completely realizing how close to death she was she said, "Bob we have got to get another prius! I love our prius!"

I am not as computer savy as I should be. I took a picture of the car on my cell phone but do not know how to transfer it. I do have a digital camera and will go back to the dealership and take a picture of it.

In regards to the insurance front.
I believe they may use CCC which is commonly used by insurance companies today for their replacement accesments. They are notorious for saving insurance companys money on this end of the equation.
The way they decided upon the 23K for our car is as follows:
They called a local dealer who quoted them a price of 25.2K for an 2006#4
they then made the following corrections to apply it to an 2005#6
Beginning quoted price for 2006#4 25,200
2006 quoted had privacy glass (our's didn't deduct <371>
#4 has no fog lights, theft alarm, navi. add +2,340
#4 had no JBL Stack CDsystem add +900
2006 is a year newer deduct <1,576>
our car had 12,800 miles deduct <3,190>

assessed car value = 23,303
So goes their neat little formula
The only problem is in the REAL WORLD... is this Fair Market Value if the car similar 05#6 can not be purchased for this?

This is absolutely fraudulant in my humble but accurate opinion
http://www.appraisalgroupofamerica.com/questsurf.htm

Be assured
I absolutely will not settle for 23K and will go to the next stage of arbitration if that is necessary. If that does not pan our the next step would have to be litigation (I hope it doesn't have to come to that).

To answer the question about liability...
In Florida we have No Fault which results as follows for us:
1. Since the other driver was charged w/ wreckless driving...his insurance must pay... as the song goes... "Oh THATS GOOD!... NO THAT's BAD!"
But he only has 10K of liability...
which forces us to pay a deductable on a accident was absolutely not our fault
(so WE LOSE OUR DEDUCTABLE FROM the 23K!!! )

2. In Florida however the No Fault forces our insurance to take up the slack...
They have however have given us this lo ball appraisal.
(What beats all is that the salvage value of the 05 prius is about 17K...
Which could result in their appraisal of 23K -(10K other insurance) -(17K salvage value) with them making a profit of our accident by 4K!!
And here we are upside down to the tune of 6K...

As a result we ABSOLUTELY, CATAGORICALLY WILL NOT and CAN NOT SETTLE for such an obvious disparity!

12-29-2005, 08:14 PM	#3
paprius4030 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Pocono's, Pa. Posts: 1,039 My Car: 2008 Prius Package: #2 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 1	Very sorry to hear about your ordel also. Basically since it was totally the other person's fault I would say you are intitled to a brand new Prius period, Mayyyybe minus so many cents a mile for the mileage on yours. I would tell the insurance company that if that don't replace your Prius with a NEW one that they can negotiate it with your lawyer, and that by the way I'm sure the lawyer will want to have your wife re-examined and wait awhile before settling to make sure she doesn't have any other injuries that take time to make themselves known. Then go get yourself a GOOD lawyer! __________________ 2004 PKG#4, Silver, since 6/28/04 2005 PKG#2 Silver, since 8/24/05 2008 PKG#2 Seaside Pearl since 10/20/07

12-29-2005, 08:47 PM	#5
EricGo Three cats, one Prius, and assorted humans Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Albuquerque, NM (SouthWest US) Posts: 1,810 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	FMV is what it will cost to replace your vehicle, in the shape it was in before your accident. Call dealers in your area, and get prices. Since we both know that you will not find used Prius for sale with only a couple of thousand miles on the odometer, a new car will likely be the closest comparison vehicle. You may wish to check out dealers that are known to demand markups for immediate availability when listing your comps. It is tempting to treat Insurance companies with the same contempt they often show customers by playing the PI game, but that is up to you and your conscience. It is however true that soft tissue injuries sometimes take weeks to become apparent, so do NOT sign any waiver of future demands until you are quite sure no medical problems are going to surface. If the insurance company does not pay for your rental while things are being sorted out, treat them in kind. __________________ R2-E2: 2004 Prius, 37K miles, lifetime MPG 57.1 as of 8/2006. Rolling 12 month average: 61.05

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12-29-2005, 06:47 PM	#1
Jax53 Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 13 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	This is some way to have my first post on Prius Chat. I have enjoyed reading the posts since my purchase of our 05 Prius #6. I am stating the obvious when I say that PC is an absolutely OUTSTANDING SOURCE of INFO for this vehicle. Well anyway I have felt compelled to share the account of the accident my wife had in our new Prius. She was in a horrific head on collision on her way to work. She was going 35mph, and suddenly at the last moment the car in her facing lane crossed over and ran into her head on (nose to nose) the result was that our car was absolutely crushed at the crimple zones and the other car seemed to caram off of her in the air and land about 150 foot in the side of the road and to the glory of God both, her and the other driver walked away! She was taken to the ER and had no broken bones or eternal damage, just extensive bruises where her seat belts were! As a result of this I don't need to share with you how sold we both are on this cars safety ratings from a head on. She was crushed about the car... My reaction was SO WHAT! Cars can be replaced, but she is my only princess! This has aided me in having a special meaning to this Christmas as I have thanked the Lord Jesus for his providental protection of my wife... Now the story with the insurance is another story... They have been very helpful on the medical end, however when it comes to the replacement end I was shocked and offended by my insurance's offer of Fair Market Value for our prius that was totaled out. At the moment of our wreck, our 05 prius (#6 w/navi) had 12,800 miles. We had owned it for 4 months. The adjuster said after doing their research they diserned that this vehicle's fair market replacement value is $23,400. I had already done some research on this myself and I stated to him how rediculous that offer was and to show him how insulting the offer was that I also had been doing some research and I had found 2 Katrina Storm salvaged 05 Prius #6's in autotrader w/ miles of 816, & 9,806 for $21,900 & $20,800, and you have the unmitagated gall to tell me that my vehicle that was in pristine shape was worth only $1,500. more?" His reaction was silence and then he stated, "Well those aren't in your area (Jax Fl.) Then I asked "Well what is your definition of Fair Market Value? He stated the price you could have personally sold your car for the day before the impact and besides he stated "they probably sell higher there" When I state that there is absolutely NO WAY that a 4 month old prius #6 COULD Be PURCHASED USED for $23,400! Then he made an inane comment about most buyers taking the first price that is offered to them by the dealer and do not know the art of negociation. But he stated that he would go back to the company that does the Fair Market Value rates and see if there could be some mistake and he would be back w/ me next week. Well it looks like this is going to be a saga... so stay tuned... But $23,400 Fair market value for a 4 month old prius #6 w/ 12,800miles? If anyone knows of any other fair market values given by insurance companies for the prius I would love to know what your experience has been. Robert T

12-29-2005, 07:05 PM	#2
engunneer Prius Hacker Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 302 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I'm very sorry to hear of your wife's crash, but I'm glad she's OK. As an engineer, I must ask the obvious (for me) question... Do you have pictures? I'm interested in crash safety and have seen one other head-on Prius picture (highway speed, here in Washington). From that picture alone, I knew that I was gladd that a Prius is what my wife and I would be in if something similar happened. Thanks for sharing your story!

12-29-2005, 08:44 PM	#4
seasalsa Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kent, WA Posts: 1,199 My Car: 2004 Prius Package: #2 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	JAX53, Are you dealing with your insurance company or the other drivers? Your insurance company should negotiate with the other company in your interest. In any case don't sign a release on the possible injuries for at least 6 months and be sure to get a lawyer if they don't give you a better offer.

12-29-2005, 08:50 PM	#6
Tempus Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Washington DC Posts: 1,693 My Car: 2004 Prius Package: #9 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Well, I had a similar experience a while back. In fact, it has echoes of the current Prius situation. in 1979 I had a 78 Rabbit Diesel stolen. Now if you'll remember, there was a gas crisis then too, and the Rabbit Diesel was the Prius of it's day. I could get 55 mpg highway without breaking a sweat. In fact they were so desired that they were being intenionally stolen all over the place. The insurance company tried to lowball me. I said fine, if you think it can be replaced for that, you replace it. I want one the same color and options with the same or less mileage. Have at it, and let me know when you have it. They wound up giving me $1K more than I paid for it in cash.

12-29-2005, 08:52 PM	#7
tunabreath Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 226 My Car: 2006 Prius Package: #7 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	How awful, but I'm glad there were no serious injuries. It's a good thing your wife was wearing her seat belt.

12-29-2005, 10:20 PM	#9
Jax53 Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 13 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Double post sorry... typical of a rookie poster!

12-29-2005, 10:49 PM	#10
Jax53 Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 13 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Thanks for the replys Again I am so grateful that my wife survived this accident... She was going 35mph she was hit by the vehicle going 40 mph... THAT WAS AN IMPACT OF 75mph! The airbags and the crimple zones of the prius were absolutely phenomenal. It happened so quickly that she never even had time to take her foot off the accelerator... Being early morning the first thing she realized was that there were headlights directly in front of her in her lane... It happened so fast that she said her next realization was that she had an airbag in her face. Several hours later after completely realizing how close to death she was she said, "Bob we have got to get another prius! I love our prius!" I am not as computer savy as I should be. I took a picture of the car on my cell phone but do not know how to transfer it. I do have a digital camera and will go back to the dealership and take a picture of it. In regards to the insurance front. I believe they may use CCC which is commonly used by insurance companies today for their replacement accesments. They are notorious for saving insurance companys money on this end of the equation. The way they decided upon the 23K for our car is as follows: They called a local dealer who quoted them a price of 25.2K for an 2006#4 they then made the following corrections to apply it to an 2005#6 Beginning quoted price for 2006#4 25,200 2006 quoted had privacy glass (our's didn't deduct <371> #4 has no fog lights, theft alarm, navi. add +2,340 #4 had no JBL Stack CDsystem add +900 2006 is a year newer deduct <1,576> our car had 12,800 miles deduct <3,190> assessed car value = 23,303 So goes their neat little formula The only problem is in the REAL WORLD... is this Fair Market Value if the car similar 05#6 can not be purchased for this? This is absolutely fraudulant in my humble but accurate opinion http://www.appraisalgroupofamerica.com/questsurf.htm Be assured I absolutely will not settle for 23K and will go to the next stage of arbitration if that is necessary. If that does not pan our the next step would have to be litigation (I hope it doesn't have to come to that). To answer the question about liability... In Florida we have No Fault which results as follows for us: 1. Since the other driver was charged w/ wreckless driving...his insurance must pay... as the song goes... "Oh THATS GOOD!... NO THAT's BAD!" But he only has 10K of liability... which forces us to pay a deductable on a accident was absolutely not our fault (so WE LOSE OUR DEDUCTABLE FROM the 23K!!! ) 2. In Florida however the No Fault forces our insurance to take up the slack... They have however have given us this lo ball appraisal. (What beats all is that the salvage value of the 05 prius is about 17K... Which could result in their appraisal of 23K -(10K other insurance) -(17K salvage value) with them making a profit of our accident by 4K!! And here we are upside down to the tune of 6K... As a result we ABSOLUTELY, CATAGORICALLY WILL NOT and CAN NOT SETTLE for such an obvious disparity!