Converts and Canadians - looking for input please

[sportsguy]

Well, here goes my first post here...let's see how this works out... (It's long - sorry)

I own, and love, a 2001 VW Golf TDI 5spd. I am not a pilot, nor am I a doctor... Though I envy one and respect the other...

Seriously, my reasons for joining here are simple.

After a dust-up with my wife about the possibility of purchasing a new car in the coming months, I wanted to learn more and make a decision based on facts, not feeling. I also need time to be able to come to terms with possibly no longer owning my TDI - I love them. (After reading a bunch of other posts here, I'm left with the impression some folks here like to bash the diesels, and I suspect they've never actually owned one...)

...and I'm not ready to admit she was right about something, too...

Basically, she said she'd have no input inot the car buying option, as I only wanted a diesel...she's partly right - I'd buy a new one today given the chance.

Now, back to reality here:

I'm after the following info - from Canadians, used to driving in our winters, and, ideally, from those who have previosuly owned TDI's and have made this crossover.

Does such a person even exist here?

Right now I love my TDI for it's economy - even with this crappy winter fuel, I still manage about 900 kms on a tank of fuel (75/25 highway/city split). Last time I crunched numbers (on 6 months of data), I was averaging right arounf 48 mpg.

I'll state this, too - I DO NOT run the car for economy - I drive it hard. In fact, I have actually installed higher-flow nozzles for a 20% increase in torque (and saw a small gain in mpg, too - when I wasn't "enjoying" the added power).

Now, we are considering vehicles which are economical, and environmentally firendliness, while more important to my wife, is less important to myself (talking relatively here - I gave up my Jeeps for the TDI...and I'm even considering a wind generator for my home...anyone else see a trend here...LOL I suspect soon I'll lose my tan and start resembling a small shrub...)

The shortlist of cars includes:

~ VW diesels (anything but a Bettle)
~ Toyota Prius
~ Honda Civic hybrid (though I prefer Toyota's approach)

I'm expecting to actually see a drop in economy from my TDI to a Prius, but this is a gut-call for me, I have no basis for this conclusion.

Hence me joining here.

Has anyone else a similar experience - being from Canada, our winters are something to deal with, and, as I understand it, will affect economy.

Does the environment affect the hybrids more than a TDI, for example?

...in the end I might just buy the car if my wife wants it, then in a few years, find something fun for myself.

...I like how European cars drive and handle...I suspect the Prius will be somewhere south of sporty in it's driving experience. Please don't misunderstand, my Golf is stock, and I'm not looking to take the Prius on the track here...

Anyway, sorry for the long post - any feedback is appreciated.

[kam]

Originally posted by sportsguy@Jan 6 2006, 01:36 PM
Well, here goes my first post here...let's see how this works out... (It's long - sorry)

I own, and love, a 2001 VW Golf TDI 5spd.  I am not a pilot, nor am I a doctor... Though I envy one and respect the other...

Seriously, my reasons for joining here are simple.

After a dust-up with my wife about the possibility of purchasing a new car in the coming months, I wanted to learn more and make a decision based on facts, not feeling.  I also need time to be able to come to terms with possibly no longer owning my TDI - I love them. (After reading a bunch of other posts here, I'm left with the impression some folks here like to bash the diesels, and I suspect they've never actually owned one...)

...and I'm not ready to admit she was right about something, too...

Basically, she said she'd have no input inot the car buying option, as I only wanted a diesel...she's partly right - I'd buy a new one today given the chance.

Now, back to reality here:

I'm after the following info - from Canadians, used to driving in our winters, and, ideally, from those who have previosuly owned TDI's and have made this crossover.

Does such a person even exist here?

Right now I love my TDI for it's economy - even with this crappy winter fuel, I still manage about 900 kms on a tank of fuel (75/25 highway/city split).  Last time I crunched numbers (on 6 months of data), I was averaging right arounf 48 mpg.

I'll state this, too - I DO NOT run the car for economy - I drive it hard.  In fact, I have actually installed higher-flow nozzles for a 20% increase in torque (and saw a small gain in mpg, too - when I wasn't "enjoying" the added power).

Now, we are considering vehicles which are economical, and environmentally firendliness, while more important to my wife, is less important to myself (talking relatively here - I gave up my Jeeps for the TDI...and I'm even considering a wind generator for my home...anyone else see a trend here...LOL  I suspect soon I'll lose my tan and start resembling a small shrub...)

The shortlist of cars includes:

~ VW diesels (anything but a Bettle)
~ Toyota Prius
~ Honda Civic hybrid (though I prefer Toyota's approach)

I'm expecting to actually see a drop in economy from my TDI to a Prius, but this is a gut-call for me, I have no basis for this conclusion.

Hence me joining here.

Has anyone else a similar experience - being from Canada, our winters are something to deal with, and, as I understand it, will affect economy.

Does the environment affect the hybrids more than a TDI, for example?

...in the end I might just buy the car if my wife wants it, then in a few years, find something fun for myself.

...I like how European cars drive and handle...I suspect the Prius will be somewhere south of sporty in it's driving experience.  Please don't misunderstand, my Golf is stock, and I'm not looking to take the Prius on the track here...

Anyway, sorry for the long post - any feedback is appreciated.

[snapback]184860[/snapback]

I'm in Montreal, but I've not owned a TDI (I've been a passanger is several Golfs though.....).

I'm terms of comsumption I'm currently seeing between 5.1 - 5.4 L/100km for December and January. My driving style is average tending towards conservative. This translates to around 44 mpg (U.S) so your gut feeling is likely correct. I can't answer with certainty whether the Prius is affected more than a TDI but my gut feeling is no.

In terms of handling I think your assumptions are correct. The Golfs I've been in (as a passenger) seem sportier.

If environmental reasons are of importance then you might want to point out to your wife that not replacing an existing car that's in good condition is likely more friendly to the environment.

Another note is you're not likely to get anywhere close to 900km on one tank in the winter. The tank is smaller on the Prius and it also has an internal bladder that further limits volume when it's cold. I'm happy if I can get 600km in the winter.

After rereading that it would seem that I'm being down on the Prius. This couldn't be further from the truth though. I'd buy a second one in a second if I had a need for it.

[HeyKB]

Does the environment affect the hybrids more than a TDI, for example?

Perhaps another question of interest would be:
Does the TDI affect the environment more than a hybrid?

To which the answer is unequivocally, Yes! The Prius has much lower emissions.

Just thought it was worth pointing out.

[sportsguy]

Thanks for the quick responses guys.

I darn near keeled over when I priced a Prius online - with taxes (and the middle of the road model in Canada - there's three to choose form here), it was $45,000!

Heck, even the entry level unit prices up at over $37,000 with taxes.

Methinks this is simply not a viable option unless there's somehting I'm missing completely. Any Canadian tax credits etc. avilable to offset this price?

I mean, the Honda Civic Hybrid tops our around $32,000 (again, online) before taxes - that's the kind of pricing I'm cool with. I'm happy to spend roughly $600 per month all-in...jumping to more than $750 all-in per month for a Prius just doesn't seem realistic.

I must be missing something - I get it's a special car and all, but it's not a $45,000 car...

...and I HATE the 15% taxes we pay on everything here...that does not help buying a car in the least...LOL

I guess it truly comes down to defining your reasons for owning these cars. If the environment is # 1, then there's really only a couple of cars at the top of the list. If overall economy (as in fuel consuption) is king, the list broadens.

The heck with it - I'm going to push for a 2006 Mustang GT convertible! Really, how bad can it be on gas...LOL It's gotta bottom out at some point, right?

[Jack 06]

Well, looks as if this one has been resolved in only 4 posts, and I'm the janitor (oops, sanitary engineer), here to sweep up.

Just a question: are you a one-car family? Sounds so.

Just on the off-chance you're not, is a used Prius an option? I don't know if the used Prius market is as inflated in Canada as it is here. If not, it may be possible to find a low-mileage Prius for the same cost as a new Civic, or lower.

In a huge used car market, it's possible "down here" (if you're facing your globe in the conventional way ) to find, say, an '04 Prius with less than 10K miles. Although all the new owners of '06s might howl, I'll say the '04 isn't substantially inferior to the '06. I'm an admirer of the TDI, the newer diesels and an apparently revived VW, and I'd still choose a low-mileage '04 Prius over a new TDI---for the long haul.

[hyo silver]

Hey, sportsguy. Welcome to PriusChat.

That's an interesting choice, a Prius or a Golf (I liked the name Rabbit better)

The Prius has a more aerodynamic design and way cooler interior, far lower emissions, and probably more interior room. It's also smoother, quieter, and more reliable. I used to swear I would never drive an automatic, but after driving a Prius for a couple of years, I can't imagine driving one of those weird 'normal' cars ever again.

I'm surprised the price has gone up so much. I paid $30k plus taxes for a base 2004. There is a Provincial tax rebate in BC, and probably in Nova Scotia, too, but I don't know.

The Golf is zippier around town. If you're used to European handling, you'll want to upgrade the tires on the Prius right away. There's also a stiffening plate available that tightens up the handling considerably. It's not a sports car, but it can be driven like one, especially on the highway. The amount of torque from the electric motors is great fun to play with. If you don't mind not being able to choose which end of a cigarette butt to drive over, there will be life after (a) Golf.

PS Gas prices bottomed out years ago.