California Prius HOV lane sticker "gold rush"

[ellerjefe]

Hey all,

I would like to present an alternate viewpoint regarding the adoption of HOV stickers by Prius drivers in California. I live in Los Angeles, and I own a prius. I am increasingly disturbed by not only the amount, but the attitude regarding HOV stickers on the prius here in Los Angeles. There seems to be this sense of entitlement regarding this issue that I find unappealing. One problem that I have is that everybody is rushing to get a sticker, REGARDLESS of whether they will use it or not. I personally know 3 people that have the stickers but live and work on surface streets predominatedly. I find that incredibly wasteful. I did the math, and figured that I would be able to use it 3-4 times a year based on my commute and my driving patterns. I don't think that it is worth it. Even if it was worth it, I often wonder what is the point of "getting away" with driving solo in the HOV lanes? What exactly are you proud of here? The purpose of the HOV lanes is to encourage the carpool concept. Have you ever considered carpooling in a Prius? I used to drive a BMW 740i. I choose to drive a prius now to "send a message" that consumers are interested in long term solutions to environmental issues caused by personal transportation. I think that message is diluted with all the "me too!" attitude regarding something that thought through. It comes across to me a not much better than Hummer owners wanting their tax break on large trucks.

I want to state that I believe that there are people that could benefit from this. Anyone who uses their cars for delivery or has a regular route or needs to drive alone seems ok. I am sure there are other uses. But really you need to ask yourself this: Will you really use it? Is the message of owning it, which can come across as greedy and selfish, that you want to send?

I encourage a healthy debate on this and look forward to alternative viewpoints. Am I the only person that thinks this way? Am I missing something?

-Jeff

[BellBoy]

Yeah I think you're missing something. The fact that every Prius owner has made a conscious effort to do the following: save gas, save the environment, and save money (on gas). While they're doing that...perhaps save time driving in traffic. That's where the HOV stickers come into play.

While I do agree with you about people that just get the stickers to have them and hardly if ever use them (I would bet there aren't that many of them), people that have to deal with L.A. highway traffic on a daily basis (like myself) feel that since it's offered they're sure as hell going to take advantage of them. They've earned it.

It seems that the majority of people in this country are such lemmings that they have to buy the massive SUVs that get very little gas mileage to feel important. I mean really...who needs a monster like a Suburban when there's no kids, no spouse, and no need?? I used to have an '93 Explorer (I still have it actually--haven't sold it yet) that I used for my daily commute. I took a long hard look and asked myself, "do you really need 4x4 drive?" I moved out of the cold weather about 7 years ago and thus the need for that was eliminated. So it was time to do what I could to sway the masses into realizing that the products that the Detroit automakers continue to create are out of touch with the good of the nation, the world, and more importantly to them--their customers.

I really do hope that the HOV lanes become choked with hybrids...perhaps this might send a message to those that need to be told that people that purchase hybrids aren't just buying them for the HOV sticker.

[ellerjefe]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BellBoy @ Apr 3 2006, 01:29 PM) [snapback]234188[/snapback]</div>

While I do agree with you about people that just get the stickers to have them and hardly if ever use them (I would bet there aren't that many of them), people that have to deal with L.A. highway traffic on a daily basis (like myself) feel that since it's offered they're sure as hell going to take advantage of them. They've earned it.

[/b]

Gee, I think the "They've earned it" is the thing I have a problem with. Earned what? Where is this sense of entitlement coming from? I think that your response above sums up my commentary entirely. The Hummer people would say "we earned this tax credit". I am trying to look beyond this. What is so wrong with not thinking yourself exempt from a really good idea. What if all vehicles where hybrids? What if that was the baseline? Carpooling in them would be the next step.

Why should we all be exempt becase we get a little better milage than the other guy? The only positive thing that I can think of is that maybe the viral marketing of seeing people "get away" with driving in the HOV lane in a prius may get people to buy more of them. Sad that it takes this to motivate people. I am thinking of down the road a bit when all cars perform at hybrid levels. I am encouraging people to consider that no matter what, you are still driving alone in a vehicle. Carpooling doubles your "gas milage" for every person you take with you.

I would hope that some of the people that drive these cars can think past the "I've got mine" mentality. Am I alone in here?

-Jeff

[M. Oiseau]

There's a new and frighteningly large cloud of HOV Sticker Smug forming over the LA metroplex.

[ellerjefe]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(M. Oiseau @ Apr 3 2006, 01:53 PM) [snapback]234207[/snapback]</div>

There's a new and frighteningly large cloud of HOV Sticker Smug forming over the LA metroplex.
[/b]

Thank you.

[p21usa]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(M. Oiseau @ Apr 3 2006, 01:53 PM) [snapback]234207[/snapback]</div>

There's a new and frighteningly large cloud of HOV Sticker Smug forming over the LA metroplex.
[/b]

Exactly what I was thinking!

I agree with OP that, ideally, a Prius owner should still carpool if possible. But, if not, and you travel the highways frequently, go ahead and take advantage of it. But to get the sticker "just because" (as my 8 year old would say) really misses the mark IMHO.

[idaten]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ellerjefe @ Apr 3 2006, 09:05 AM) [snapback]234169[/snapback]</div>

Hey all,

...

I encourage a healthy debate on this and look forward to alternative viewpoints. Am I the only person that thinks this way? Am I missing something?

-Jeff
[/b]

Yep. The cost. $8 is so low that there is no hesitation to buy it.

Raise it to $100 is my thinking. Or, better still, $1000 for a lifetime (provided one continues to own a qualifying car), and spend the collected money to add more HOV lanes. That seems just.

I do commute in the HOV lane, and would prefer to do so with fellow carpoolers, but that just hasn't worked out. But i'm not in the lane as much, as say, someone who works on a timecard. I bought the Prius as a statement, to save gas, to preserve clean air. The timing though was entirely related to certaintly in acquiring the sticker.

Really want to save gas? Here in CA, I suspect we change jobs a lot, and commute more as a result. Give people prop 13 tax portability, and folks just might move close to where they work.

[auricchio]

Since I live on the Central Coast, 200mi away from both the Bay Area and the Los Angeles area, I'm not going to apply for HOV stickers. Certainly, they should go to those who will use them.

Even better, when I drive to/through these metro areas with diamond lanes, I'm not alone. They're family trips, so I've got two or three of us in the car.

I tend to agree with the OP that there isn't really an "entitlement" to HOV stickers just because we have Priuses. The state is giving us a perk for our wise choice, to encourage others to join us.

Flaunting an HOV sticker to "punish" those who haven't embraced the same energy values is even less reason to use the stickers!

[BellBoy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ellerjefe @ Apr 3 2006, 09:53 AM) [snapback]234206[/snapback]</div>

Gee, I think the "They've earned it" is the thing I have a problem with. Earned what? Where is this sense of entitlement coming from? I think that your response above sums up my commentary entirely. The Hummer people would say "we earned this tax credit". I am trying to look beyond this. What is so wrong with not thinking yourself exempt from a really good idea. What if all vehicles where hybrids? What if that was the baseline? Carpooling in them would be the next step.

Why should we all be exempt becase we get a little better milage than the other guy? The only positive thing that I can think of is that maybe the viral marketing of seeing people "get away" with driving in the HOV lane in a prius may get people to buy more of them. Sad that it takes this to motivate people. I am thinking of down the road a bit when all cars perform at hybrid levels. I am encouraging people to consider that no matter what, you are still driving alone in a vehicle. Carpooling doubles your "gas milage" for every person you take with you.

I would hope that some of the people that drive these cars can think past the "I've got mine" mentality. Am I alone in here?

-Jeff
[/b]

The way I see it...people that purchase hybrid vehicles that get the required MPG have earned it. Why? Because I COULD have purchased a vehicle that gets 10 MPG with a weight that forces me to burn through a tank of gas in a few days or a week. Because of the fact that I DID buy a vehicle that gets well over 45 MPG and that I get to visit the pump every three weeks or so.

Your Hummer statement makes no sense to me. The Hummer gets zilch MPG-wise compared to the Prius. Now, your carpooling statement makes more sense...except for me it doesn't apply. So does that make me a bad person for wanting to save time in the HOV lane while I do my daily commute? Sorry I disagree.

Regarding motivation to buy...the person that buys a hybrid JUST to travel in the HOV lane is an idiot, IMO. I bought it based on the same reasoning that I use to purchase anything--research, personal experience (test drive), and input from others (friends, PC and other sites). The motivation to save (as I mentioned in my first post) was the biggest draw for me.

On a bit of a side note, I would think that the HOV stickers would be better used if there was more enforcement of the law. Before I got my stickers, I would count how many people passed me (sitting still) in the HOV lanes without the stickers and with only one person in the car. How much money could the state bring in if there was some sort of automated system (like red light runner cameras) in place? From the number of people I counted, $341 per offense could finacially save the state.

[darelldd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(p21usa @ Apr 3 2006, 11:03 AM) [snapback]234213[/snapback]</div>

But to get the sticker "just because" (as my 8 year old would say) really misses the mark IMHO. [/b]

I must be missing something. Are you guys saying it is bad to have the stickers, and never use them? Who gets hurt with that scenario? I have them, and yet I carpool in our EV or Prius about 99% of the times I'm in the HOV lane. Was I wrong to purchase the stickers? Is my action of having a real carpool AND the stickers a bad thing? If others are using the stickers so they can drive solo in the HOV lane, and I'm using them for window dressing... who's the bad guy?

You may be humored to know that I fought against the legislation that brought us these stickers...and then purchased them for myself the moment they were availble to me.

I too have reservations about the whole HOV access for hybrids thing - the access is supposed to be used as an incentive, not as a reward. And yet hybrids NEED no incentives as witnessed by my six-week wait to buy one! Let's add incentives to vehicles that use no fossil fuels....and get some momentum behind getting them built and on the roads.

Here's my little HOV sticker page that shouldn't say anything new.

Nomex suit on.