Toronto Star anti-hybrid story

[Sarge]

<sigh>

Another extremely-narrow-minded individual speaking like an authority...

"A futile break on taxes for hybrids
Apr. 1, 2006. 01:00 AM

Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty has doubled the tax credit for hybrid automobiles from $1,000 to $2,000.

Can you say "shameless pandering," boys and girls?

I thought you could.

Other than maybe keeping Susan Sarandon happy, this measure is futile and patently unfair.

Futile, because hybrids make up only an infinitesimal percentage of total auto sales in this province (about 1,000 per year out of 600,000, according to auto industry guru Dennis DesRosiers).

These gasoline-electric combos have scant hope of ever becoming significant players.

As long as it takes 10 to 20 years of fuel savings to pay for the added capital cost of a hybrid, Canadians simply cannot afford to buy one, tax rebate or no."

Full Article.

His basic argument is why should the very small market of hybrid customer (keep in mind the Canadian hybrid market is much smaller due to less disposable income and higher hybrid pricing) when other fuel-saving measure are not equally rewarded. I wonder exactly how he proposes enforcing "car pooling" when purchasing a large vehicle like an SUV to be eligible for some sort of credit...? <_<

He overlooks so many other benefits to the technology aside from FE (and I know this type of article has been beaten over and over), that it is not even really worth discussing... just thought I would share it for entertainment purposes....

Of course, the guys signs off as a Liberal, so I guess that says it all. <_<

Kevin

[Jonnycat26]

I kinda think he has a good point.

Personally, I don't see why *any* PZEV car that gets over 30 combined mpg shouldn't be eligibile for a tax credit. The higher the mileage, the higher the credit.

[jbarnhart]

I come from a different approach. Since the tax credit is supposed to encourage hybrid sales, why offer it on a car with a permanent six-week backlog of orders? Its not like people need any additional encouragement to buy a Prius...

[Sarge]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jbarnhart @ Apr 4 2006, 11:59 AM) [snapback]234714[/snapback]</div>

I come from a different approach. Since the tax credit is supposed to encourage hybrid sales, why offer it on a car with a permanent six-week backlog of orders? Its not like people need any additional encouragement to buy a Prius...
[/b]

I agree with your logic, though I personally believe the backlog will not be indefinite, and from year to year hopefully Toyota will catch up as they ramp up production of their hybrid vehicles.

I believe the reasoning behind the incentive is to promote the new, cleaner technology which ultimately reduces emissions. The current backlog is just an unfortunate (for the consumer) side effect.

Therefore, I guess it comes down to the political reasoning for the credit - is it just to preserve fuel and improve air quality, or is it more to promote new and cleaner technology?

I suspect the answer to that question will vary quite greatly, depending on who is answering.

Kevin

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Apr 4 2006, 10:34 AM) [snapback]234662[/snapback]</div>

I kinda think he has a good point.

Personally, I don't see why *any* PZEV car that gets over 30 combined mpg shouldn't be eligibile for a tax credit. The higher the mileage, the higher the credit.
[/b]

That is a very good point, however, I am sure the reason such a credit is not given out is that it would cost the government a *lot* of money, since pretty much every manufacturer offers a subcompact that achieves this... that would be a lot of money!

Secondly, as I mentioned in my other post, it sort of depends whether the credit is geared toward reducing fuel consumption or promoting new cleaner technology. I believe it is more the latter than the former.

Kevin

[KTPhil]

So he notes that sales are low, then lambasts attempts top provide incentives for raising that figure. Hmmm...

Maybe he'd like a good cheese to go with that whine.

[FBear]

As usual the moribund American Car manufacturers are using the media to protect their turf. According to them we should blindly support the American car manufacturers and buy those wonderful gas guzzling SUVs and drive the whole North American continent into the abyss.

[hyo silver]

The credit was increased because a politician gets to score points for appearing to help the environment, without it actually costing him anything. As for the article, well, you weren't really expecting honesty and intelligence from a newspaper, were you?

[Mirza]

Letters to the editor
We welcome your contributions. Letters must include full name, address, and phone numbers of sender. Street names and phone numbers will not be published. Send your contributions to Letters to the Editor via email to lettertoed@thestar.ca; via fax to 416 869-4322; or by mail to One Yonge Street, Toronto, Ontario, M5E 1E6. We reserve the right to edit letters, which typically run 50-300 words. Photos are welcome.

Here's my take (submitted to them as a letter to the editor:

Though I agree with the author's position on raising gas taxes rather than only rewarding hybrid drivers and not blindly accepting any new idea or technology that comes along, I was dismayed to read about the negativity towards hybrid technology in a recent article. I believe that it has been unfairly represented in the media to a public that is not well aware of all the benefits of hybrid technology, and why such vehicles will be in our future.

The article mentioned that hybrid vehicles don't save gas on the highway. This is untrue for two reasons:

1) economical-minded hybrids utilize a smaller (and thus more efficient) gas engine than would a gas-only equivalent.

2) Regenerative braking is still applicable to highway driving. I don't know what highways the author drives on, but where I drive we are constantly speeding up and slowing down.

I also disagree with another sentiment: the author of the article also expressed a sentiment along the lines that fuel cells would supplant hybrids. On the contrary, hybrids could be crucial to fuel cell technology.

By widely adopting hybrid technology, automakers will pave the way towards making fuel cell vehicles a reality. The path from the modern internal combustion engine to the fuel cell is thus a continuum, with hybrids bridging the gap, as many components and electronics are shared between fuel cell and hybrid vehicles

The reverse process of hydrolysis is highly inefficient and expensive. Toyota’s fuel cell hybrid vehicles will adapt a battery much like today’s hybrids to capture regenerative energy and improve performance and fuel economy. “In an Associated Press interview, Jim Press, president of Toyota Motor Sales USA, said: ‘I think everything will be a hybrid, eventually. It will either be a gas hybrid, a diesel hybrid, or a fuel-cell hybrid.”

[hyo silver]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ Apr 4 2006, 01:05 PM) [snapback]234776[/snapback]</div>

“In an Associated Press interview, Jim Press, president of Toyota Motor Sales USA, said: ‘I think everything will be a hybrid, eventually. It will either be a gas hybrid, a diesel hybrid, or a fuel-cell hybrid.”
[/b]

How about a pedal hybrid? Hills would be easier both ways: a little help on the way up with an electric motor, and regenerative brakes on the way down so the disks don't warp. Lightweight batteries and removal of the ridiculous speed governor would make electric bicycles far more interesting.

[Tideland Prius]

Another case of jealousy. If I can't have it, why can you? Tax rebates are only incentives. Just like how carpoolers can use the HOV lanes. That's incentives. True, it's not in direct dollar value but if you think about it, it cuts travel time which can possible increase productivity.

The thing is that the government is doing these incentives to promote this technology. They could've easily done it with diesels if they wanted to but they chose hybrids.

However, I think a stepped incentive would work better. The higher the mileage and lower the pollution, the greater the incentive. Also, do that for the gas guzzler tax. The higher the consumption, the greater the tax rate. Seeing one lamborghini is pretty good. Seeing a few a month is ridiculous.