Third Time Triangle and Total System Failure

[jeanlouise]

First time poster; long time lurker.
Am posting for a) empathy and to find out if anyone has ever heard results on an autopsy of Toyota Parts.

I'm in Arizona, driving an 05 package 4 with 8500 miles. Received my first triangle (and exclamation car in the display) after a 20 mile commute and was almost home. Slightly panicked, pulled in driveway, shut off, tried all of the rebooting and gas cap-type stuff that I have learned from the Priuschatters. Christmas tree dash, no 'ready', couldn't take out of neutral. Roadside asst towed it on a flatbed. Toyoto dealer ended up replacing inverter-which he said was very rare and that is also my impression from this site. [8066 scanned ECM Code P0aa6/inverter malfunction. Information codes 526 & 614. Short circuit in inverter assy/part defect replaced inverter as per tsbEG071-05 FPN G9200-47100 OP OCDE 890201 & 890201]
A few days later, same situation. Towed in. They originally said it wasn't showing codes but they ended up replacing the aux battery and made vague statements about it not holding a charge after the change. [8090 aux battery failed midtronics test replaced battery OCV 12.65 soc 94 code 700P FPN 28800-21170]
A few days later, same thing, warning triangle came on and I drove it straight to dealer without shutting it off. Once there, turned off, same multi-light warning, unable to start. Then they replaced the 'transmission' [ 8396 scanned ECM. Code P0AA6 info codes 526 & 613 diagnosed as per shop manual. Short circuit in electric motor mG/2 part defect. Consulted with TAS before replacing any parts. Checked resistance of MG1 & MG2. TAS agreed with diagnosis. Replaced Hybrid Transaxle assy.]

Since my car is having a serious flirtation with the lemon law, I grilled them about what was causing it, is there anything I need to do etc. On all three occasions, they said it was nothing I did, the parts were bad and had been sent to Toyota for research (which I also read about on this site) but couldn't tell me if Toyota would ever let me know any info. Before I contact them, I wondered if anyone has contacted them for this type of info and received a response.
BTW, my car was manufactured after the 'software glitch recall' problem and I am a poster child for Prius driving style so am really perplexed at its problems.

[MikeSF]

Sounds to me that Toyota has yet to find the problem with your car, what they're finding is pieces that got damaged by the problem and replaced those damaged pieces without investigating further. Unknown what your problem is but its probably something very small to the point of allowing the car to work, but the long haul it adds up and damages something. I'd get them to give that car a total inspection on everything if they can, or just tell them "if you want to keep replacing parts at $8k a pop out of your pocket then by all means, or you can spend a few extra bucks now and find out what keeps doing this"

[galaxee]

the thing about the inverter is, most of the inner workings are "toyota's intellectual property" and most inverter codes are not even described in the repair manual- they just state that the inverter needs to be replaced. pretty much any time there's an inverter problem (which is indeed rare), they consult with tech assist and determine whether or not it needs to be replaced and then do the job. there is no fixing the inner workings and seeing how protective they are of the actual codes, i doubt they will tell you what's wrong with the inverter when they send it back to toyota for analysis.

[efusco]

Very rare, and it sure sounds like they're far from explaining why the inverter keeps going bad. I'm usually the one suggesting patience, but dang, it seems like there's something very wrong with the system to continue to create such an odd issue. HV ECU?

[finally_got_one]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scout @ Apr 25 2006, 10:22 AM) [snapback]244901[/snapback]</div>

First time poster; long time lurker.
Am posting for a) empathy and to find out if anyone has ever heard results on an autopsy of Toyota Parts.

I'm in Arizona, driving an 05 package 4 with 8500 miles. Received my first triangle (and exclamation car in the display) after a 20 mile commute and was almost home. Slightly panicked, pulled in driveway, shut off, tried all of the rebooting and gas cap-type stuff that I have learned from the Priuschatters. Christmas tree dash, no 'ready', couldn't take out of neutral. Roadside asst towed it on a flatbed. Toyoto dealer ended up replacing inverter-which he said was very rare and that is also my impression from this site. [8066 scanned ECM Code P0aa6/inverter malfunction. Information codes 526 & 614. Short circuit in inverter assy/part defect replaced inverter as per tsbEG071-05 FPN G9200-47100 OP OCDE 890201 & 890201]
A few days later, same situation. Towed in. They originally said it wasn't showing codes but they ended up replacing the aux battery and made vague statements about it not holding a charge after the change. [8090 aux battery failed midtronics test replaced battery OCV 12.65 soc 94 code 700P FPN 28800-21170]
A few days later, same thing, warning triangle came on and I drove it straight to dealer without shutting it off. Once there, turned off, same multi-light warning, unable to start. Then they replaced the 'transmission' [ 8396 scanned ECM. Code P0AA6 info codes 526 & 613 diagnosed as per shop manual. Short circuit in electric motor mG/2 part defect. Consulted with TAS before replacing any parts. Checked resistance of MG1 & MG2. TAS agreed with diagnosis. Replaced Hybrid Transaxle assy.]

Since my car is having a serious flirtation with the lemon law, I grilled them about what was causing it, is there anything I need to do etc. On all three occasions, they said it was nothing I did, the parts were bad and had been sent to Toyota for research (which I also read about on this site) but couldn't tell me if Toyota would ever let me know any info. Before I contact them, I wondered if anyone has contacted them for this type of info and received a response.
BTW, my car was manufactured after the 'software glitch recall' problem and I am a poster child for Prius driving style so am really perplexed at its problems.
[/b]

This is the second inverter failure I have heard about. If they cant tell you what failed in the inverter (intellectual property and such), they should at least be able to tell you why it failed. If it was simply a bad part out of the factory, I would like to know that. But if there was a lot of load on the system because of aftermarket parts, it might be understandable. As I remember, the other inverter failure was out in the desert also...heat related? Air Conditioner? (WAGs)

[richard schumacher]

Did you ever wash your engine?

[TonyPSchaefer]

Scout, sorry to hear about your problems. I have to agree with everyone else, but feel that they missed a few points:

First, WELCOME TO PRIUSCHAT. I know you said you've been lurking, but without an initial post, we can't welcome you.

Secondly, great job on getting and reporting the error codes. Well done, sir.

[jeanlouise]

Nope, never washed the engine. Have done very little to the car at all other than regular scheduled maintenance/oil changes and all were done at dealer. I wash the exterior by hand in the driveway. ANd in response to the AC question above, here in the valley, it's one of the first things to cross my mind but it's only eight months old so hasn't been through any of the extreme AC-needed-or-die weather.
And also want to say Thank You a Million Times for all of you and the posts that have kept me educated and entertained before and during my membership in the Prius family.

[hobbit]

P0AA6/526 I show in the '05 manual as "hybrid battery voltage
isolation system fault", i.e. a leak from one side or the other
to ground somewhere. But you probably knew that already. [Very
interestingly, this isn't in the '04 manual at all.] It could be
anywhere in the inverter, MGs, battery box and wiring ... which
if it's consistently present, *can* be localized by disconnecting
major modules and using a meter. The other sub-codes do try to
isolate smaller areas -- 613 is supposedly the MGs and 614 is the
"high voltage direct current area", including almost everything
downstream of the SMR 1/2/3 in the battery box. [Which latter is
sort of silly, given that you can easily disconnect the battery
leads from the back of the inverter and then figure out if it's the
under-frame wires or the inverter itself.]
.
When they checked MG winding resistance, did they also test leakage
to *ground*? Including trying to shake the drivetrain around a
little to see if it's intermittent?
.
In that same manual section there are a bunch of other tests listed
in the flowchart [pages 05-783 thru 05-796] to manually localize the
fault. [ileaf/05toyrm/05toypdf/05rmsour/2005/05priusr/05/21j25/cip0aa65.pdf]
After doing that, the techs should know *exactly* where the leak is.
Toyota really, really wants 10 megohms of isolation between all that
stuff and ground... and includes fairly delicate circuitry that's
always testing for drift one way or the other. The ECU logic permits
continued driving during the trip in which the fault is discovered,
but then won't power back up to READY until it is cleared.
.
_H*

[Marlin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scout @ Apr 25 2006, 01:22 PM) [snapback]244901[/snapback]</div>

Toyoto dealer ended up replacing inverter-which he said was very rare and that is also my impression from this site.[/b]

Hey, my wife's prius just had the inverter replaced about a week and a half ago. It too was a 2005 package 4, bought December 3rd and had about 4000 miles at the the time of repair.

She's driven it at least 1000 miles since with no problems.