Plug-ins do they make sense?

[finally_got_one]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ May 4 2006, 08:58 PM) [snapback]250063[/snapback]</div>

While electric power in the US is far cleaner than gasoline production and consumption... we do still have a long way to go. The folks who say we should not be persuing EVs because of the pollution involved in electricity production are aiming their negative energy at the wrong target. Let's keep working toward cleaner electricity, and we'll be in great shape. 100% domestic energy is a worthy goal. While we continue to burn gasoline, we'll never be energy independent in the US.
[/b]

Actually, we have come quite a way in cleaning up the smog made by generating electricity...at least here in Southern California. When our company started monitoring the smog for those powerplants, we were seeing 15-20 ppm NOx. These days we see 1.5 ppm for the same amount of electricity generated. What we need to do is get off of oil and coal powered electricity production elsewhere...

[darelldd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finally_got_one @ May 5 2006, 11:43 AM) [snapback]250373[/snapback]</div>

Actually, we have come quite a way in cleaning up the smog made by generating electricity...at least here in Southern California. [/b]

Yes, CA has done pretty well. We do still import electricity that is made dirty ELSEWHERE though, unfortunately. The goal is to clean the nation's grid (if not the world's). I saw a great bumpersticker a while back that stated, "We all live downwind."

[Maytrix]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kirbinster @ May 5 2006, 12:03 PM) [snapback]250253[/snapback]</div>

Eric I have posted some info before, but will do it again here. Don't know where you are located, but if you are anywhere near Northern NJ I would be glad to show you the system.

My system is comprised of 54 Sharp 185watt solar panels. They are connected to three Sunnyboy 2500U and one Sunnyboy 1100U inverters. The inverters take the DC power from the panels and convert it to a/c and sync with utitlity company voltage and frequency. The power then ties directly into my main breaker panel. When I produce more than I am using it flows out onto the grid for others to use - while spinning my meter backwards to give me credit for the power. Anyone in NJ (and a few other states) that has a southern facing roof free of shading is crazy to not install such a system. With the rebates, srec credit and savings on electricity it is an economic no brainer. If you are a tree hugger there is even more reason to do it
[/b]

You've got me interested now How did you go about finding a company that could perform the installation? Or better yet, make recommendations on what to install?

[kirbinster]

You can find everything you are asking at: http://www.njcleanenergy.com/

It is the state page for renewable energy and they have lists of suppliers and calculators to figure out electrical savings and lots more.

[JackDodge]

I thought that only penny machines made sense.

[EricGo]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kirbinster @ May 5 2006, 03:31 PM) [snapback]250406[/snapback]</div>

You can find everything you are asking at: http://www.njcleanenergy.com/

It is the state page for renewable energy and they have lists of suppliers and calculators to figure out electrical savings and lots more.
[/b]

Rebate of $5k/kW AND no state tax. Wow

[Brian K]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kirbinster @ May 5 2006, 12:03 PM) [snapback]250253[/snapback]</div>

Eric I have posted some info before, but will do it again here. Don't know where you are located, but if you are anywhere near Northern NJ I would be glad to show you the system.

My system is comprised of 54 Sharp 185watt solar panels. They are connected to three Sunnyboy 2500U and one Sunnyboy 1100U inverters. The inverters take the DC power from the panels and convert it to a/c and sync with utitlity company voltage and frequency. The power then ties directly into my main breaker panel. When I produce more than I am using it flows out onto the grid for others to use - while spinning my meter backwards to give me credit for the power. Anyone in NJ (and a few other states) that has a southern facing roof free of shading is crazy to not install such a system. With the rebates, srec credit and savings on electricity it is an economic no brainer. If you are a tree hugger there is even more reason to do it
[/b]

That's a mega system!

We have a PV system too. In Maine it just doesn't make economic sense to grid tie though. They don't pay squat for the excess juice. Certainly not enough for me to install the phase equipment and additional panels. So we charge the batteries until they're full, then the panels just sit in the sun. When we run the A/C CMP (Central Maine Power) runs them for us. That's way cheaper than the PV system needed to run the A/C when we do need it. Certainly cheaper than buying fossil fuel for the generator too. If I didn't have to pay for a line to the shop I'd drop the tie to CMP, but since I pay for one line, the other is free. It makes sense to keep it. We have a bettery system due to the many outages we have experienced in the past. In CMPs defense, they've gotten better at reducing outages. It's kinda nice though to turn an outside light on when the neighbors don't have power. :-)

The impetus for our system was a 5 day outage a few years back. We got an ice storm that coated everything with 4" of ice. Some folks were w/o power for weeks. We decided then and there to do what we needed to do to live independent of the utility for up to a month or more.

4 Kyocera 125w panels (soon to be 8 as soon as I get to installing them)
2 1000ah batteries in series (24v)
2 Trace DR 1500w inverters slaved for 120/240v
1 SolarBoost 6024 controller
8k (continuous) generator for backup and still tied to the grid when we want to be. We have a 3k diesel Lister generator, but it isn't hooked up yet.

For us an EV makes sense. We already have excess PV power that's been paid for. Except it's Maine. Winter, snow, cold. Love the Prius, don't know anything about a purely EV in our conditions.

[darelldd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Brian K @ May 5 2006, 03:46 PM) [snapback]250500[/snapback]</div>

For us an EV makes sense. We already have excess PV power that's been paid for. Except it's Maine. Winter, snow, cold. Love the Prius, don't know anything about a purely EV in our conditions.
[/b]

Nothing but love, baby! An EV's performance is affected about as much as any automobile in the cold. As long as you use advanced batteries (NiMH or Li-ION) and stay away from lead-acid, you'll do very well. Here in CA, I expend a bit of energy just keeping the battery cool. You won't have that problem!

[ken1784]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ May 5 2006, 07:04 AM) [snapback]249906[/snapback]</div>

A gasoline engine is 15-20% efficient at putting the energy in the tank to the pavement. An EV is over 90% efficient at putting the energy in the batteries to the pavement.
[/b]

Toyota claims the tank-to-wheel efficiency of Prius is 37% and the well-to-wheel efficiency is 32%.
http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/tech/envi...s2/output.html

I believe the NiMH charge-discharge efficiency is about 90% at best.
Do you have any number about well-to-wheel of EV?

Ken@Japan

[8AA]

While plug-in hybrids are a logical goal, we need some added improvement in battery technology. The Prius presently has a battery that weighs about 100 pounds and can run the car in EV mode for no more than 2 miles. If your commute is 20 miles, you're going to need 1000 pounds of batteries, which is alot of weight to be hauling around. If your destination doesn't have recharging capabilties, then you'll need another 1000 pounds of batteries to get back home. When we get the technology and economics together to make EV cars practical, then a plug-in hybrid will make a lot more sense.