Plug-ins do they make sense?

[kirbinster]

A gallon of normal gasoline contains about 112,000 btu's. Electricity only contains 3,412 btu per kwh. If gasoline is $3 per gallon electricity would have to cost less than 9 cents per kwh to give you as much bang for your buck. Don't know about where you guys live, but in my neck of the woods electricity goes for about 15 cents a kwh. That equates to gasoline at $4.92 a gallon. So, how does plugging in a hybrid save me money?

[darelldd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kirbinster @ May 4 2006, 03:00 PM) [snapback]249904[/snapback]</div>

So, how does plugging in a hybrid save me money?
[/b]

Saving money is only one small benefit. This isn't ALL about "what's in it for me." But I'll tell you how it saves money - electric motors are substantially more efficient than gasoline engines. A real-world example: My Rav4EV holds less than 1 gallon of gasoline worth of energy in its batteries. I can drive about 120 miles on that energy... which means My boxy little car gets BETTER than 120mpg of gasoline equivalent energy. Put it in a Prius body, and I'd see 180-200 mpg.

A gasoline engine is 15-20% efficient at putting the energy in the tank to the pavement. An EV is over 90% efficient at putting the energy in the batteries to the pavement. If I actually paid for my electricity at the grid rates, my "gasoline equivalent" of energy works out to about 50c/gallon.

Make more sense now? Very few things are as simple as they first seem.

Add the social, political and pollution parts to the equation, and EVs win big.

[skruse]

EVs can be based on renewable energy (photovoltaic, hydro, wind) and are not dependent on finite energy sources (oil, coal). EVs can operate independent of outside energy sources and instead can operate on energy sources close to home. EVs are not dependent on centralized energy production because they can make use of distributed energy production (solar, hydro, wind), and are not limited to hundreds of millions years old fossil fuels.

[darelldd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(skruse @ May 4 2006, 03:19 PM) [snapback]249912[/snapback]</div>

EVs can be based on renewable energy (photovoltaic, hydro, wind) and are not dependent on finite energy sources (oil, coal). EVs can operate independent of outside energy sources and instead can operate on energy sources close to home. EVs are not dependent on centralized energy production because they can make use of distributed energy production (solar, hydro, wind), and are not limited to hundreds of millions years old fossil fuels.
[/b]

Say, Skruse... are you married?

[dipper]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ May 4 2006, 03:32 PM) [snapback]249919[/snapback]</div>

Say, Skruse... are you married?
[/b]

I think "Skruse" has been brainwashed by your many EV threads... so did most of us...

[auricchio]

Another thing to consider is that power plants can be fueled with coal, nuclear, or natural gas---things you can't burn in cars. (Well, there are a few natural-gas vehicles.)

And it's easier to limit pollution from a few hundred power plants than from millions of cars.

[DonDNH]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rick Auricchio @ May 4 2006, 07:16 PM) [snapback]249946[/snapback]</div>

And it's easier to limit pollution from a few hundred power plants than from millions of cars.
[/b]

That's the logic that got me to build an all-electric home in 1981. The government is still trying to get power plants to clean up their act.

[EricGo]

kerbinster,

Darrell answered your question, but just to rephrase and expand a bit --

A Prius hybrid turns about 1/3 of fossil fuel into mechanical energy (compared to 1/4 for a lot of non-hybrid cars), so there is about 35,000 btu of energy to use. So 10 kWh will have an equivalent useful energy amount, and by today's prices will cost $.60 - $1.50, depending where you live.

Thought about another way --
A Prius uses about 0.20 kWh/mile. My home electricity costs 8 cents/kWh (no night rate unfortunately) which works out to ~ 60 miles per ONE dollar.

One other money consideration: Liquid fossil fuel will continue to rise in price, as it becomes more scarce, not to mention it's volatility when someone in S. America/Middle EAst/Africa coughs. Electricity is not subject to the same problems, because it's core source is US coal/nuclear; and it's price is effectively limited by wind power.

SO, even if enviro/securtity considerations do not sway you, the cost should.

[Tempus]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kirbinster @ May 4 2006, 06:00 PM) [snapback]249904[/snapback]</div>

A gallon of normal gasoline contains about 112,000 btu's. Electricity only contains 3,412 btu per kwh. If gasoline is $3 per gallon electricity would have to cost less than 9 cents per kwh to give you as much bang for your buck. Don't know about where you guys live, but in my neck of the woods electricity goes for about 15 cents a kwh. That equates to gasoline at $4.92 a gallon. So, how does plugging in a hybrid save me money?
[/b]

As others have pointed out, you started with a faulty premise. You are assumed that the Gasoline->Wheel efficiency is the same as the Electricity->Wheel efficiency.

[darelldd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tempus @ May 4 2006, 06:26 PM) [snapback]249987[/snapback]</div>

As others have pointed out, you started with a faulty premise. You are assumed that the Gasoline->Wheel efficiency is the same as the Electricity->Wheel efficiency.
[/b]

And if that faulty assumption were true, there would be VERY little reason to build hybrids like the Prius! Electric motors have awesome torque, and superior efficiency as compared to ICEs.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dipper @ May 4 2006, 03:36 PM) [snapback]249920[/snapback]</div>

I think "Skruse" has been brainwashed by your many EV threads... so did most of us...
[/b]

Oh good. So it hasn't been a total waste of time and effort.