Latest on custom plug-in conversion

[rodney1]

Excerpts from an article in the online "San Jose Mercury News":

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When Mr. Kramer [Felix Kramer of CalCars] goes to Washington this week, he'll be driving a modified Toyota Prius that he says gets more than 100 miles per gallon....

The modifications to turn a regular hybrid into a plug-in version are relatively simple and include a bigger, better battery pack, a bit of software and a short extension cord. The alterations allow the regular Prius, which can run for short distances and at certain speeds solely on electric power, to expand that capacity....

Energy CS [Monrovia, CA] might soon begin selling the conversions under the brand name EDrive.

Kramer said his conversion cost about $12,000, and future conversions from Energy CS also could cost that amount. A do-it-yourselfer might be able to build a plug-in hybrid using a less sophisticated setup for about $3,000, he said.

Kramer also suggests that Toyota would be able to add the technology to its existing hybrids for about $3,000 ...

Toyota Motor says any Prius owner who converts the car into a plug-in voids the vehicle's warranty.

``Plug-ins pose very obvious difficult challenges for us, with regard to the current technology,'' said spokesman John Hanson. In a converted Prius, the battery is depleted, then recharged, and that's done repeatedly. ``That's death on a battery,'' he said.

Still, he said, the concept is promising. ``We are definitely looking at the possibility of developing a plug-in.''

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Full article: <http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/14592190.htm>

[RichBoy]

$ 12,000 for a conversion of little practical value that voids the warranty...gee what deal ! LOL

[Presto]

Well, I'm grateful that there's someone out there taking the initiative and doing this kind of thing. The initial costs are going to be high, and of course, you'll void the warranty, but if you're hardcore, cost is not an issue!

[benighted]

I'd be willing to do the DIY kit if there was a thorough "howto"

[burritos]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(benighted @ May 17 2006, 12:14 AM) [snapback]256679[/snapback]</div>

I'd be willing to do the DIY kit if there was a thorough "howto"
[/b]

I'm sure the disposal of a new NiH battery is probably pretty detrimental to the enviroment. My plan is to drive the car till the battery no longer functions, then swap out the old battery for a plug in down the road. The conversion should be much cheaper by then.

[daniel]

If you read CalCar's literature carefully, the "mileage" (they calculate gas burned and ignore electricity used) is infinite for trips below their 10-mile EV range, and decreases to about the same mileage as an unmodified Prius at extremely long trip distances.

The 100-mpg claim is based on their idea of a "typical" trip length.

If you mostly drive fairly short distances you can meet or excede that 100-mpg claim, as you are substituting electricity for gasoline, and pretending that the electricity is free. (It is a lot cheaper than gas.)

But the 100 mpg claim must be taken with some salt, understanding that it's arrived at by calculating that first 10 miles as being "free." It may be a realistic number for many people. But not for long-distance highway driving.

CalCars makes wild claims in their headlines, and then provides the more sober and realistic information in the text. Their web site is interesting, and provides links to companies that will do a 30-mile PHEV mod using Li-Ion batteries. CalCars says their intention is to provide proof-of-concept, to encourage Toyota to build PHEVs, which Toyota could do much more cheaply due to the economies of scale.

BTW, the NiMH battery is recyclable, and Toyota pays $200 for old ones.

[EricGo]

Toyota gives an oblique warning that all customers of PHEV mods should take into consideration: The larger the fraction of the battery's capacity routinely charged and discharged, the shorter the battery life.

I'd guess Toyota wants solutions that allow 150K miles with few exceptions, in order to retain PZEV status. That is a high bar to cross at the moment at anything approaching reasonable cost if at least a 10 mile, but closer to 20 mile EV range is want.

'reasonable' is in the eye of the payer, but I buy eco tech earlier than 99% of the populace, and balk at paying up front more than I can recoup even by the end of the product's useful life.

[benighted]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ May 17 2006, 02:43 PM) [snapback]257157[/snapback]</div>

I'm sure the disposal of a new NiH battery is probably pretty detrimental to the enviroment. My plan is to drive the car till the battery no longer functions, then swap out the old battery for a plug in down the road. The conversion should be much cheaper by then. [/b]

There are ways to do it while keeping the original battery. See: Hymotion PHEV kit

[EricGo]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ May 17 2006, 05:43 PM) [snapback]257157[/snapback]</div>

I'm sure the disposal of a new NiH battery is probably pretty detrimental to the enviroment. My plan is to drive the car till the battery no longer functions, then swap out the old battery for a plug in down the road. The conversion should be much cheaper by then.
[/b]

I don't know specific details, but Toyota says they recycle the battery. That does leave some room for the imagination, but a pile of old batteries is not one of them.

[darelldd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 17 2006, 06:06 PM) [snapback]257255[/snapback]</div>

But the 100 mpg claim must be taken with some salt
...
CalCars makes wild claims in their headlines, and then provides the more sober and realistic information in the text. [/b]

All true, and I've challenged Felix and others on this issue. The response, is usually, "what else are we to say?" And really, there's no good answer. How do you make a one-line announcement that makes any sense in regard to this type of technology? If car makers get to put stickers on cars that say 60mpg, when VERY few people can hit that consistently, then why should these guys take hits for claiming what normal people, doing normal driving CAN accomplish? Yes, I'm all for the "whole truth" and most of the details are eventually explained. The problem is, how do you make a headline that gives all the info?

Short trips are the killer here. More pollution, more gas consumption. If we eliminate the short ICE trips, we make a HUGE dent in our problem, even if the long-distance problems are still with us. I have no issue with talking up the benefits of EV for short trips where most most of our gasoline is consumed today.

But again, I do agree with the issue you bring up! A tough one to solve.