Mileage experiment on my '86 4Runner 4x4

divide · 06-08-2006, 10:48 PM

I decided to do an experiment today as I had some spare time and a pretty long drive and, using what I've learned so far from this board, I managed to get a little over 30mpg from my usually ~21mpg Toyota 4Runner. Has anyone else done this sort of thing and seen unusually high mileage from a conventional auto? 30mpg is certainly not 50-60mpg, but considering I'm driving a 20yr old Toyota 4x4 that's not in the best shape, I'm amazingly impressed!

Basically, I tried some of the general tricks that are talked about on here... along with what the Prius does automagically:

Drive at a lower speed (55-60mph hwy, ~speed limit residential)
Attempt 60% horsepower when possible, coast downhill (pulse and glide?)
Use momentum when coming to a stop in traffic, etc.
Shut engine off when coasting (this is a manual, yes I know that it's not the most intelligent thing to do, but I'm capable of driving sans power steering )
Shut engine off when at a red light

The truck is certainly small for an SUV, I haven't seen anything comparable in a new vehicle, including size and capability.

However, it's not in the most aerodynamic condition, currently, as we have the top off for summertime. I also had the windows down for most of the ride. I get 20-21mpg on average which is about the EPA rated fuel economy (21mpg). I live in Colorado, so the truck is certainly a bit underpowered due to the altitude (6,000 in town, 9,000 ft at home).

I'm extremely surprised, given any combination of factors, that I could have a 50% mileage increase. Has anyone else tried this in a conventional auto? If so, did you see a comparable increase in mileage?

We're still waiting on our Prius (does anyone know where to find a good deal without a wait?), so I have to find some way to keep myself entertained!

eyeguy13 · 06-09-2006, 12:35 AM

Wow!! Great picture! I want to get my mountain bike out there! With my mountain bike, I would get TREMENDOUS gas mileage

I could pulse and glide (I go about 60% of maximum energy anyway) and coast down hills!

You are lucky to live there......

sunnysandiegan · 06-09-2006, 12:58 AM

We share our 2006 Prius and 2004 Camry. We've had the Prius since early February. We've both caught ourselves driving the Camry as if it were the Prius on numerous occasions. I tried pushing the "button" to start it yesterday. LOL Didn't work, obviously. Anyway, we've noticed the fuel efficiency has gone up in the Camry in the last couple months. Our driving habits certainly have changed and since we both drive both cars, the effects are more noticeable than if only one of us drove the Prius all the time.

To answer your question about getting a Prius quicker, call around as far as you are willing to travel to purchase one. At the time when we were waiting for ours, we could have purchased various colors and/or packages for sticker price at several points in the process. We opted to wait for financing reasons. (We were able to put more down by waiting and thus reduced a our loan considerably.)

Good luck and have fun!!!

EricGo · 06-09-2006, 08:45 AM

Hi Divide,

Nice driving

There is a fellow named Wayne Gerdes who hangs out at greenhybrid, and was one of the fantastic 5 marathoners. He has a conventional Honda Accord and if memory serves me, has a lifetime mpg in the high 40's. He does the sort of things you mention, and more. He says that turning the engine on & off repeatedly is ok on *his* car, but I have my doubts. Most certainly that kind of driving requires skill, and I think is dangerous in the hands of most drivers.

Actually, every HCH driver I have read about who has a lifetime MPG in the mid 50's or above plays these games.

And lastly, so long as we are talking history, the oldest reference I know of regarding P&G is from the 1970's in the old USSR. Petrol was hard to come by, even for the mafioso. So the drivers would turn on the engine, speed up to 60 kph or so with a fairly open throttle, and then kill the engine at coast down to almost walking speeds. I must have been quite a sight. Course, they tended to be the only cars on the road, so there was no road rage

So yes, the concepts work -- the Prius *is* an ICE, after all.

theorist · 06-09-2006, 09:20 AM

Great job! By getting 30 mpg instead of 21 mpg, you're saving 142 gallons of gas over 10,000 miles. To save this much gas just through more fuel efficient driving technique in a Prius, you'd have to go from 40 mpg to 93 mpg!

Another minor technique that I use in the warmer months in our Elantra is to use the AC a little like regenerative braking. When coasting to a stop and/or down a hill I'll often use the kinetic energy that might be wasted by braking and turn on the air conditioning. On the flip side, I'll turn off the AC when accelerating or climbing a hill.

skruse · 06-09-2006, 09:45 AM

I had a 1991 Toyota 4Runner (4 cylinder, 5-speed stick) that I drove for 16 years and put 200,000 mi on. I consistently earned between 23 and 30 mpg by using many of the techniques you describe (except turning the engine off when idling). Good going and enjoy!

Also using synthetic oil improves fuel economy and helps the vehicle last longer. I very much appreciated and enjoyed our 4Runner, but have almost tripled fuel economy with the Prius.

divide · 06-09-2006, 10:07 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ Jun 8 2006, 10:35 PM) [snapback]268447[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Wow!! Great picture! I want to get my mountain bike out there! With my mountain bike, I would get TREMENDOUS gas mileage

I could pulse and glide (I go about 60% of maximum energy anyway) and coast down hills!

You are lucky to live there......
[/b]

Thanks, we love it out here. That photo was taken last weekend on a camping trip, about 3/4 up Mt. Antero. Of course, we hit a big patch of snow just a bit higher than that photo so didn't make it to the top. It's certainly beautiful country out here, though.

Pretty amazing, though, that the truck could withstand that sort of driving and then get me 30mpg

I'm curious what I'm able to achieve on an entire tank. We'll see this coming week...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Jun 9 2006, 06:45 AM) [snapback]268520[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

There is a fellow named Wayne Gerdes who hangs out at greenhybrid, and was one of the fantastic 5 marathoners. He has a conventional Honda Accord and if memory serves me, has a lifetime mpg in the high 40's. He does the sort of things you mention, and more. He says that turning the engine on & off repeatedly is ok on *his* car, but I have my doubts. Most certainly that kind of driving requires skill, and I think is dangerous in the hands of most drivers.
[/b]

I'm not so worried about turning the engine on and off at this point, my engine is a few months away from dying anyway... low oil pressure and a more noticable knocking noise now (the previous owner rebuilt the engine, but apparently not very well). We're rebuilding another 4Runner Turbo at the moment which should be done in a few weeks. I'm afraid it will be more difficult to drive it efficiently, though

As far as stopping/starting the engine, when I have momentum I bring the engine back up to speed (let the clutch out) before turning the ignition on. From what I've heard, that's what the Prius does to save wear on the engine. The wear actually comes from combustion at low RPM. I do not know this as a scientific fact, but it seems legitimate and came from a reputable source. Stopping and starting at red lights, though, may not be the best. I'm curious which saves more gas and by how much? I should try multiple combinations over several tanks of gas and see what I find.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Jun 9 2006, 06:45 AM) [snapback]268520[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

And lastly, so long as we are talking history, the oldest reference I know of regarding P&G is from the 1970's in the old USSR. Petrol was hard to come by, even for the mafioso. So the drivers would turn on the engine, speed up to 60 kph or so with a fairly open throttle, and then kill the engine at coast down to almost walking speeds. I must have been quite a sight. Course, they tended to be the only cars on the road, so there was no road rage

So yes, the concepts work -- the Prius *is* an ICE, after all.
[/b]

Highly entertaining! If I coasted all the way down to walking speed, I'd make the news for botching up I-25 traffic!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(theorist @ Jun 9 2006, 07:20 AM) [snapback]268531[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Great job! By getting 30 mpg instead of 21 mpg, you're saving 142 gallons of gas over 10,000 miles. To save this much gas just through more fuel efficient driving technique in a Prius, you'd have to go from 40 mpg to 93 mpg!

Another minor technique that I use in the warmer months in our Elantra is to use the AC a little like regenerative braking. When coasting to a stop and/or down a hill I'll often use the kinetic energy that might be wasted by braking and turn on the air conditioning. On the flip side, I'll turn off the AC when accelerating or climbing a hill.
[/b]

I like your AC idea. I had AC in the 4Runner at one point...

I'll be happy with 50mpg in the Prius when we finally get it. I averaged just under 50mpg driving it more or less like a regular car when we test drove one out here. That included going up and down the pass from CO Springs to Woodland park (2500ft elevation gain). I was pretty impressed at the power going up the pass--I pushed it hard a few times to see how it would do when the battery was mostly depeted--and especially impressed at the average mileage considering I'd been driving faster than usual.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(skruse @ Jun 9 2006, 07:45 AM) [snapback]268544[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

I had a 1991 Toyota 4Runner (4 cylinder, 5-speed stick) that I drove for 16 years and put 200,000 mi on. I consistently earned between 23 and 30 mpg by using many of the techniques you describe (except turning the engine off when idling). Good going and enjoy!

Also using synthetic oil improves fuel economy and helps the vehicle last longer. I very much appreciated and enjoyed our 4Runner, but have almost tripled fuel economy with the Prius.
[/b]

4Runners are great vehicles -- my wife had a '95 (2nd generation) just before we sold it to buy the Audi. Aside from the mileage--which certainly wasn't horrible for an SUV--on our 80mi commute not making sense for the fact that we're generally just carrying two people back and forth.

We'll probably keep a 1st generation 4Runner for as long as we can keep one running. They're a blast to drive due to how small and light they are (for the type of vehicle), the top coming off, and how sturdy and capable they are off road. I'm looking forward to how it will drive with the turbo. The leetle 4cyl is anemic at this altitude. It feels a little more at home, though, when I'm less worried about keeping up with traffic

On another note, has anyone noticed that they feel much more relaxed when driving slower? There must be a lot of stress involved with keeping up. I felt much more like a human being when I finally made it home.

finman · 06-09-2006, 10:08 AM

Mt. Antero? omigod, I've been up there!! Nice picture. I used to live in Denver and had an old '75 CJ5 (11-15 MPG, no more, no less, even downhill). Great fun.

Now the fun is topping 50 MPG. Times change.

That Jeep was a rolling project. Parts available at the hardware store to rebuild most anything on it.

I love my Prius...but the Jeep was fun while I had it.

cheers,

Curt.

divide · 06-09-2006, 10:35 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ Jun 9 2006, 08:08 AM) [snapback]268561[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Mt. Antero? omigod, I've been up there!! Nice picture. I used to live in Denver and had an old '75 CJ5 (11-15 MPG, no more, no less, even downhill). Great fun.

Now the fun is topping 50 MPG. Times change.

That Jeep was a rolling project. Prrts available at the hardware store to rebuild most anything on it.

I love my Prius...but the Jeep was fun while I had it.
[/b]

We had the gall to make it up the last section of trail the last time we went up Antero -- it wasn't as bad as it looked from the bottom. It's a pretty wild trail, though. My trusty 4Runner has tackled worse, but Antero certainly takes the cake for feeling the highest.

I had a jeep a while back, an '89 Wrangler Sahara. It had an inline carbeurated 6cyl that ran rough if it sat for more than a few weeks and got 13-14mpg, highway, on a good day. It was fun, but I have quite a bit more faith that my 4Runner will make it home. I'm still amazed at what it does in a stock setup (larger of the stock tire sizes, but still stock).

I have quite a bit of faith now in Toyotas. My friend's 4Runner just recently died... 212k miles and the (original) timing chain finally broke. That's our next project, shouldn't be too hard. And, to think, I sold my first truck (an '88 Dodge Dakota) because I was worried about the high mileage... 108k miles...

phoebeisis · 06-09-2006, 11:23 AM

The old 4 Runners could get good mpg;they were light-a 4x4 probably wasn't more than 3400 lbs.They were built on the little pickups chassis.I had 1976,1986,1994,1998 Toyota pickups.They stayed very light until recently.The 1986 was 2580 lbs the 1998 Ext cab was just 2800lbs.Weight kills,especially in hilly country like yours. 30 mpg is great for a 4X4 in Colo.
Is your 4 Runner FI?My 1986 was one of the last years for Carbs, but I suspect your 4 Runner is FI.If it is a carb vehicle then your mpg is spectacular instead of just outstanding!Carb vehicles were terrible at altitude, because most places at altitude actually have rapidly changing altitude(Denver to leadville is maybe 5000 ft to 10,000 ft) and the carb just can't adapt to that.Thanks,Charlie
PS Back in the mid 70's we rented a GM V-8 car to drive from Denver to Ouray-What a pitiful car.It couldn't hit 80 mph,and it got about 16 mpg hy.At 65mph is had zero acceleration.

06-08-2006, 10:48 PM	#1
divide Join Date: May 2006 Location: Divide, CO Posts: 18 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I decided to do an experiment today as I had some spare time and a pretty long drive and, using what I've learned so far from this board, I managed to get a little over 30mpg from my usually ~21mpg Toyota 4Runner. Has anyone else done this sort of thing and seen unusually high mileage from a conventional auto? 30mpg is certainly not 50-60mpg, but considering I'm driving a 20yr old Toyota 4x4 that's not in the best shape, I'm amazingly impressed! Basically, I tried some of the general tricks that are talked about on here... along with what the Prius does automagically: Drive at a lower speed (55-60mph hwy, ~speed limit residential) Attempt 60% horsepower when possible, coast downhill (pulse and glide?) Use momentum when coming to a stop in traffic, etc. Shut engine off when coasting (this is a manual, yes I know that it's not the most intelligent thing to do, but I'm capable of driving sans power steering ) Shut engine off when at a red light The truck is certainly small for an SUV, I haven't seen anything comparable in a new vehicle, including size and capability. However, it's not in the most aerodynamic condition, currently, as we have the top off for summertime. I also had the windows down for most of the ride. I get 20-21mpg on average which is about the EPA rated fuel economy (21mpg). I live in Colorado, so the truck is certainly a bit underpowered due to the altitude (6,000 in town, 9,000 ft at home). I'm extremely surprised, given any combination of factors, that I could have a 50% mileage increase. Has anyone else tried this in a conventional auto? If so, did you see a comparable increase in mileage? We're still waiting on our Prius (does anyone know where to find a good deal without a wait?), so I have to find some way to keep myself entertained! __________________ 2006 Driftwood Pearl, Pkg #8 (~51 mpg commuting) Divide, CO @ 9,500ft elevation (20mi W of Colorado Springs) Mods: EV mode, nav/bt override switch, foglights w/o headlights, anytime backup cam, block heater, mudflaps, door guards, rear bumper guard, hitch

06-09-2006, 08:45 AM	#4
EricGo Three cats, one Prius, and assorted humans Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Albuquerque, NM (SouthWest US) Posts: 1,810 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Hi Divide, Nice driving There is a fellow named Wayne Gerdes who hangs out at greenhybrid, and was one of the fantastic 5 marathoners. He has a conventional Honda Accord and if memory serves me, has a lifetime mpg in the high 40's. He does the sort of things you mention, and more. He says that turning the engine on & off repeatedly is ok on his car, but I have my doubts. Most certainly that kind of driving requires skill, and I think is dangerous in the hands of most drivers. Actually, every HCH driver I have read about who has a lifetime MPG in the mid 50's or above plays these games. And lastly, so long as we are talking history, the oldest reference I know of regarding P&G is from the 1970's in the old USSR. Petrol was hard to come by, even for the mafioso. So the drivers would turn on the engine, speed up to 60 kph or so with a fairly open throttle, and then kill the engine at coast down to almost walking speeds. I must have been quite a sight. Course, they tended to be the only cars on the road, so there was no road rage So yes, the concepts work -- the Prius is an ICE, after all. __________________ R2-E2: 2004 Prius, 37K miles, lifetime MPG 57.1 as of 8/2006. Rolling 12 month average: 61.05

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06-09-2006, 12:35 AM	#2
eyeguy13 Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 337 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Wow!! Great picture! I want to get my mountain bike out there! With my mountain bike, I would get TREMENDOUS gas mileage I could pulse and glide (I go about 60% of maximum energy anyway) and coast down hills! You are lucky to live there......

06-09-2006, 12:58 AM	#3
sunnysandiegan Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 248 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	We share our 2006 Prius and 2004 Camry. We've had the Prius since early February. We've both caught ourselves driving the Camry as if it were the Prius on numerous occasions. I tried pushing the "button" to start it yesterday. LOL Didn't work, obviously. Anyway, we've noticed the fuel efficiency has gone up in the Camry in the last couple months. Our driving habits certainly have changed and since we both drive both cars, the effects are more noticeable than if only one of us drove the Prius all the time. To answer your question about getting a Prius quicker, call around as far as you are willing to travel to purchase one. At the time when we were waiting for ours, we could have purchased various colors and/or packages for sticker price at several points in the process. We opted to wait for financing reasons. (We were able to put more down by waiting and thus reduced a our loan considerably.) Good luck and have fun!!!

06-09-2006, 09:20 AM	#5
theorist Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Lexington, MA Posts: 330 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Great job! By getting 30 mpg instead of 21 mpg, you're saving 142 gallons of gas over 10,000 miles. To save this much gas just through more fuel efficient driving technique in a Prius, you'd have to go from 40 mpg to 93 mpg! Another minor technique that I use in the warmer months in our Elantra is to use the AC a little like regenerative braking. When coasting to a stop and/or down a hill I'll often use the kinetic energy that might be wasted by braking and turn on the air conditioning. On the flip side, I'll turn off the AC when accelerating or climbing a hill.

06-09-2006, 09:45 AM	#6
skruse Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Great Central Valley, Fresno, CA Posts: 1,101 My Car: 2007 Prius Package: #6 Touring Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I had a 1991 Toyota 4Runner (4 cylinder, 5-speed stick) that I drove for 16 years and put 200,000 mi on. I consistently earned between 23 and 30 mpg by using many of the techniques you describe (except turning the engine off when idling). Good going and enjoy! Also using synthetic oil improves fuel economy and helps the vehicle last longer. I very much appreciated and enjoyed our 4Runner, but have almost tripled fuel economy with the Prius.

06-09-2006, 10:08 AM	#8
finman Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Harrisburg, PA Posts: 931 My Car: 2004 Prius Package: #7 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Mt. Antero? omigod, I've been up there!! Nice picture. I used to live in Denver and had an old '75 CJ5 (11-15 MPG, no more, no less, even downhill). Great fun. Now the fun is topping 50 MPG. Times change. That Jeep was a rolling project. Parts available at the hardware store to rebuild most anything on it. I love my Prius...but the Jeep was fun while I had it. cheers, Curt.

06-09-2006, 11:23 AM	#10
phoebeisis Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 16 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	The old 4 Runners could get good mpg;they were light-a 4x4 probably wasn't more than 3400 lbs.They were built on the little pickups chassis.I had 1976,1986,1994,1998 Toyota pickups.They stayed very light until recently.The 1986 was 2580 lbs the 1998 Ext cab was just 2800lbs.Weight kills,especially in hilly country like yours. 30 mpg is great for a 4X4 in Colo. Is your 4 Runner FI?My 1986 was one of the last years for Carbs, but I suspect your 4 Runner is FI.If it is a carb vehicle then your mpg is spectacular instead of just outstanding!Carb vehicles were terrible at altitude, because most places at altitude actually have rapidly changing altitude(Denver to leadville is maybe 5000 ft to 10,000 ft) and the carb just can't adapt to that.Thanks,Charlie PS Back in the mid 70's we rented a GM V-8 car to drive from Denver to Ouray-What a pitiful car.It couldn't hit 80 mph,and it got about 16 mpg hy.At 65mph is had zero acceleration.