Comment: Civic Hybrid and Prius are overrated

[jkash]

New editorial today. This could generate some discussion. I think the author is full of hooey, but that's just me.
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/cgi-bin/news....-19&newsId=4091

Jeff

[siai]

I guess if it didn't come from the minds of the "Big three" (or two or whatever is left) it isn't any good. Complaining about a great car that gets over 40 mpg (even when one tester managed to get it under 40) is sour grapes. Hybrids may not be the final solution but they sure beat anything else out there at the present time. Someday we might all cram garbage in our "Mr. Fusion" (as in Back to the Future) and have all the power we need. Until then, even if the Prius got crummy milage, it would still be a great value in an automobile.

[Danny]

I sent the author an email pointing to our real world monthly mpg average threads to show that the EPA's # can actually be met.

But I do enjoy how none of the authors of these opinion pieces address the near-zero emissions from the Prius. I'd rather live in a healthy city and get 20 MPG than live in a Mexico City-esque place getting 60 MPG.

[Danny]

Here's the email exchange so far (read from bottom up)

Richard –
I haven’t seen the data of these thousands of other drivers you speak of, but from all of the articles I have read from the press about the Prius not meeting the EPA ratings and being a disappointment mpg-wise, they are all driving new to fairly-new cars that have not been properly broken-in. From my almost 1,800 users, the least-often seen complaint has been about meeting or not meeting the EPA ratings. I’d say 90% of the complaints have been over the 6-12 month wait to get a Prius. Apparently the 100,000+ people estimated to be on the waiting list don’t see hybrid vehicles as overrated.
There are other reasons for purchasing a hybrid, as well, such as near-zero emissions and it’s effect on the environment, not just the wallet from increasing gas prices. It’s disappointing to see the press attack the Prius & other hybrids simply due to their inability to reach the antiquated EPA ratings.
Danny
________________________________________


Danny:

Thanks for your e-mail.
We tested the car and drove as it we would any other car. Those are the results we got, which mirror what thousands of other drivers have recorded.
Sure it's possible to get the EPA ratings. But most people don't. And that was the point I was making.

________________________________________

Dear Mr. Truett,



Regarding your article entitled Civic Hybrid and Prius are overrated I am forced to disagree with your stance that the EPA MPGs are inflated and impossible to achieve in real life. For evidence of such, I invite you to take a look at www.PriusChat.com, the online home for Prius owners & enthusiasts. Specifically I suggest you take a look at the follow discussion topics:



"I beat the EPA..."

May MPG Averages

April MPG Averages

March MPG Averages



As youll hopefully be able to tell, the average MPG increases as the car becomes broken in (ie > 5,000 miles).



While I agree with your statement that the EPA should take another look at their testing procedures, I feel that these changes should be across the board, not just for hybrid vehicles. I believe the highest speed the EPA uses for their highway averages is 55 mph. With most states allowing an interstate speed of 70 mph, its impossible to get real world mpgs from these tests.



Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or comments.



Thanks,



Danny Cooper

[Sun__Tzu]

I've noticed a few things about the various attack articles that have been making the rounds. First off, they've usually been filled with inaccuracies. But second, they generally lump the Prius and Civic together as hybrids, and then proceed to trash the Civic. And since the Civic is an overrated piece of junk, by extension the Prius must be too.

Just as stock brokers must now reveal what positions they hold while dispensing advice, I think these writers should state their relationships to the various car makers.

[Johno]

Well said..........

[jasond]

"We tested the car and drove as it we would any other car"

Perhaps he's just a lousy driver who guns it at every intersection and blasts the AC.

Anyway, it's detroit.com for goodness sake. Big shock that they'd have a negative article about Japanese vehicles...

Btw, how exactly does this fellow know that "thousands" of people are getting bad mileage? I'd love to see the letters he's collected full of complaints.

[tag]

I think the author is full of hooey, but that's just me.

IMHO, he most definitely IS full of hooey, particularly when he states:

Not many vehicles match their EPA ratings exactly, but they usually aren’t off by more than 10 percent.

That's just not true, at least not in my experience. I don't think I ever got even 12mpg in my Navigator despite the fact the EPA rated it at 15mpg combined. By my calculations, that's over a 20% discrepancy.

I have also driven my Aunt's Honda Accord somewhat extensively. That thing is EPA-rated at 24/33 and I'll be damned if real world mpg is more than 20. Again, a discrepancy of over 20%.


FWIW, here's a little blurb from their advertising page:

If you think your advertising should be in a vehicle that is read by 150,000 business executives in metro Detroit....

So, how many of those 150k execs should we presume work for Toyota?

[DaveG]

Sure it's possible to get the EPA ratings. But most people don't.

What I find interesting here is the reading between the lines:

"Sure it's possible to get the EPA ratings if you drive efficiently to get the most benefit from the hybrid technology".

That, IMHO, is a failing of owners, not the technology itself. If the EPA ratings are based on people who drive carefully to maximise the hybrid efficiency, then naturally the EPA numbers are going to be better than someone who drives with a lead-foot and just relies on it "being a hybrid" to compensate for their driving style.

The technology can help owners who want to get the best milage from the car. In itself, the technology can help, but it can't do everything for people who don't want to change their driving habits.

Dave

[rflagg]

What I find interesting here is the reading between the lines:

"Sure it's possible to get the EPA ratings if you drive efficiently to get the most benefit from the hybrid technology".

That, IMHO, is a failing of owners, not the technology itself. If the EPA ratings are based on people who drive carefully to maximise the hybrid efficiency, then naturally the EPA numbers are going to be better than someone who drives with a lead-foot and just relies on it "being a hybrid" to compensate for their driving style.

The technology can help owners who want to get the best milage from the car. In itself, the technology can help, but it can't do everything for people who don't want to change their driving habits.

Dave

Exactly. I don't love this car because I'm achieving (after 6k miles and with warm weather) EPA estimates and above - I love this car because I drive a billion times more safely with it. I don't floor it at every light, I don't have a ruined day on my way to work, or a ruined evening on my way home - ever anymore. Previously, it was every night. Every Night! Driving the beltway in DC - and any of the extensions of these roads for just a few weeks is enough to put anyone in a mental institution. Now, when my coworkers come in bitching about the traffic and complaining, I just smile and think (Is that how bad I was before this car too?!).

If 'thousands' of people are 'driving this car like regular cars', then too bad they'll be on blood pressure medication while my yin and yang are in perfect balance.

Also, the article mentions that the Ford Focus gets PZEV ratings - is that true?! My partner had a Focus a few years ago, and I promise you the gas tank did not have a bladder.

-m.