miles per gallon vs. miles per dollar

jamarimutt · 05-30-2004, 06:05 PM

A friend says that his diesel beetle provides about the same number of miles per dollar as the Prius; the beetle provides fewer miles per gallon, but since diesel currently costs less, miles per dollar are similar. Sounded like an interesting comparison. :idea:

hdrygas · 05-30-2004, 06:56 PM

Well this is a hip shot but what about both M.P.G. and $/gl being required on all new cars. Pumps could relay price to the car via bluetooth or other and a minimal computer could provide a display for the driver. I am waiting for my Prius and am playing a game to see how high I can make the continuous m.p.g. calculator go on my present car. I am now averaging 22.6 up from 19.8 per tank. I wonder how much of the milage gains that are made in the Prius and other hybrids are psychological, driven by the continuous display of this data. BTW prior to this the computer had been set to miles to empty!
Henry Drygas

DaveinOlyWA · 05-30-2004, 09:55 PM

Saab and BMW both have diesels in Europe that easily beat
the Prius in economy. its a telling statistic that Europe and
Japan (two countries that produce almost no oil) can build
very efficient automobiles but the US (we are controlled by
the oil companies) cannot.

Wolfman · 05-31-2004, 09:31 AM

What you are seeing there has more to do with cost of fuel. Fuel overseas is taxed excessively, making it extremetly expensive. If were were paying the same price for fuel here, you can bet that all of those ultra efficient vehicles would be everywhere here. And before you suggest it, NO I would not support increasing fuel taxes.

DaveinOlyWA · 05-31-2004, 12:19 PM

there is no way the oil companies will let us raise the taxes significantly anyway.

hdrygas · 05-31-2004, 01:12 PM

There was a interesting bit on NPR last week on the economy and gas prices that compared Saudi Arabia to a drug pusher who is aware that if the prices go too high countries will start looking for viable alternatives. That is why they will do their best to lower gas prices here in the US. I sure they have a very good idea as to what our tolerances are. The only way to stop this and get a healthier environment and stop burning oil is to be politically active. We need to get the monkey off our back. The first step is to admit we are hooked.
Henry Drygas

bil7y · 05-31-2004, 02:23 PM

Diesels are dirtier than hybrids. Also as prices rice the multiplier will help thos with higher mileage rather than cheaper fuel prices. Carbon is nasty and lets try to produce less. Lots-o-diesel is not the answer to a cleaner environment.

Wolfman · 05-31-2004, 02:37 PM

Actually Billy, diesels are cleaner than CONVENTIONAL gasoline powered cars. Yes, I'm aware of the NOx and particulate issues with them. They remain the only two weaknesses of diesel engines.

HOWEVER, the US is finally supposed to begin selling diesel fuel that is in line with Euro IV specifications overseas in 2006. This means our fuel will finally be compatible with the modern injection, and emissions control systems that will be ruined with the use of our current high sulphur muck. There are also new technologies up and coming into the market to answer to the ever tightening emissions regulations for diesels.

As for CO2 emissions, diesels excel here as they simply require less fuel to operate than the comparable gasser. I'm all for diesel vehicles. Let's get 'em over here as quickly as possible. Why? Diesels are the original alternative fuel engine. Diesels can be run on vegetable oil based fuel. Try that in your gasoine engine and then tell me how far you got. On biodiesel, diesels emissions whip any gasser across the board with the exception of NOx emissions. Even these are easily treated with a catalytic convertor. You made specific mention of CO2 emissions. They drop to a net value of zero under biodiesel as long as it's not mixed with fossil fuel.

Right now, a viable fuel is literally being dumped into the trash. Recyclling waste vegetable oil from all of those resturaunts would be another step towards pulling the plug on the arabs umbillical chord.

Since transesterification of biodiesel results in soap as a byproduct, the maker can also corner the market in natural, biodegradable, industrial degreasers as well.

DaveinOlyWA · 05-31-2004, 02:59 PM

the new european diesels are cleaner than regular
gas guzzlers and with diesels that get 50% GREATER
fuel economy than a Prius, you cannot deny that they
would help out the environment quite a bit.

Peugeot has a 7 passenger mini van that get 43 mpg!!

here is an article from 2 years ago about an Opel that
gets 113 mpg!

http://www.auto-report.net/index.html?Fiat...diesel2003.html

granted its a high performance prototype with the
carbon fiber body etc...but imagine a production car
with half the performance. it would still put up
impressive numbers.

If you are interested in how the european diesels can put up such huge
numbers, Popular Science has a pretty imformative article on the subject.

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/auto/article/...,198235,00.html

autoxic · 05-31-2004, 03:24 PM

There was a diesel Beetle way back in 1951. See http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/downs/9...sel/diesel.html for an interesting article.

However, the Beetle is no substitute for a Prius. Not many good Beetle reviews at http://www.carsurvey.org/model_Volkswagen_Beetle.html .

Anyway, diesel may be an option, but isn't it not allowed in California? Why?

05-30-2004, 06:05 PM	#1
jamarimutt Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 972 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	miles per gallon vs. miles per dollar A friend says that his diesel beetle provides about the same number of miles per dollar as the Prius; the beetle provides fewer miles per gallon, but since diesel currently costs less, miles per dollar are similar. Sounded like an interesting comparison. :idea:

05-31-2004, 02:23 PM	#7
bil7y Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: SF Posts: 5 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	miles per dollar - let snot forget miles per pound of carbon Diesels are dirtier than hybrids. Also as prices rice the multiplier will help thos with higher mileage rather than cheaper fuel prices. Carbon is nasty and lets try to produce less. Lots-o-diesel is not the answer to a cleaner environment.

05-31-2004, 02:37 PM	#8
Wolfman Moderator (on leave) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Paradise, TX Posts: 1,205 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Actually Billy, diesels are cleaner than CONVENTIONAL gasoline powered cars. Yes, I'm aware of the NOx and particulate issues with them. They remain the only two weaknesses of diesel engines. HOWEVER, the US is finally supposed to begin selling diesel fuel that is in line with Euro IV specifications overseas in 2006. This means our fuel will finally be compatible with the modern injection, and emissions control systems that will be ruined with the use of our current high sulphur muck. There are also new technologies up and coming into the market to answer to the ever tightening emissions regulations for diesels. As for CO2 emissions, diesels excel here as they simply require less fuel to operate than the comparable gasser. I'm all for diesel vehicles. Let's get 'em over here as quickly as possible. Why? Diesels are the original alternative fuel engine. Diesels can be run on vegetable oil based fuel. Try that in your gasoine engine and then tell me how far you got. On biodiesel, diesels emissions whip any gasser across the board with the exception of NOx emissions. Even these are easily treated with a catalytic convertor. You made specific mention of CO2 emissions. They drop to a net value of zero under biodiesel as long as it's not mixed with fossil fuel. Right now, a viable fuel is literally being dumped into the trash. Recyclling waste vegetable oil from all of those resturaunts would be another step towards pulling the plug on the arabs umbillical chord. Since transesterification of biodiesel results in soap as a byproduct, the maker can also corner the market in natural, biodegradable, industrial degreasers as well. __________________ 1981 Mercedes 300D 1982 Thomas Transitliner 2003 Toyota Prius (gone, but will not be forgotten, thanx Toyota for bringing us the future) 1998 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid FWD 1981 John Deere Liquifire (winter toy) 1983 Yamaha Virago 920 2004 Honda GL1800 Goldwing (delivered 7.6.04 with .4 miles on it)

05-31-2004, 02:59 PM	#9
DaveinOlyWA Opps !! I Did it Again!! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: South Puget Sound, WA Posts: 9,672 My Car: 2006 Prius Package: #4 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 5	the new european diesels are cleaner than regular gas guzzlers and with diesels that get 50% GREATER fuel economy than a Prius, you cannot deny that they would help out the environment quite a bit. Peugeot has a 7 passenger mini van that get 43 mpg!! here is an article from 2 years ago about an Opel that gets 113 mpg! http://www.auto-report.net/index.html?Fiat...diesel2003.html granted its a high performance prototype with the carbon fiber body etc...but imagine a production car with half the performance. it would still put up impressive numbers. If you are interested in how the european diesels can put up such huge numbers, Popular Science has a pretty imformative article on the subject. http://www.popsci.com/popsci/auto/article/...,198235,00.html __________________ My 2006: Last tank 463.1 miles @49.2 pump (49.4 computer) 4.22 cpm winter mpg 50.70 summer mpg 54.59 lifetime: 33,038.3 miles 52.79 mpg pump (54.04 mpg computer) 5.74 cpm My 2007 Zenn Driven 5945 miles, 2.01 cpm/ 105 mpg (at $2.05/gal), 4.04 miles/ Kwh Savings over my Prius $302.66 The Corolla...573.26 The REAL SAVINGS from not driving Corolla 657.39 +Prius= 958.18 (excludes maintenance costs...would be unfair to ICE vehicles) My Plate: DUALPWR (Dual Power)

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05-30-2004, 06:56 PM	#2
hdrygas Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Olympia Wa Posts: 3,650 My Car: 2004 Prius Package: #9 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Well this is a hip shot but what about both M.P.G. and $/gl being required on all new cars. Pumps could relay price to the car via bluetooth or other and a minimal computer could provide a display for the driver. I am waiting for my Prius and am playing a game to see how high I can make the continuous m.p.g. calculator go on my present car. I am now averaging 22.6 up from 19.8 per tank. I wonder how much of the milage gains that are made in the Prius and other hybrids are psychological, driven by the continuous display of this data. BTW prior to this the computer had been set to miles to empty! Henry Drygas

05-30-2004, 09:55 PM	#3
DaveinOlyWA Opps !! I Did it Again!! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: South Puget Sound, WA Posts: 9,672 My Car: 2006 Prius Package: #4 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 5	Saab and BMW both have diesels in Europe that easily beat the Prius in economy. its a telling statistic that Europe and Japan (two countries that produce almost no oil) can build very efficient automobiles but the US (we are controlled by the oil companies) cannot.

05-31-2004, 09:31 AM	#4
Wolfman Moderator (on leave) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Paradise, TX Posts: 1,205 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	What you are seeing there has more to do with cost of fuel. Fuel overseas is taxed excessively, making it extremetly expensive. If were were paying the same price for fuel here, you can bet that all of those ultra efficient vehicles would be everywhere here. And before you suggest it, NO I would not support increasing fuel taxes.

05-31-2004, 12:19 PM	#5
DaveinOlyWA Opps !! I Did it Again!! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: South Puget Sound, WA Posts: 9,672 My Car: 2006 Prius Package: #4 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 5	there is no way the oil companies will let us raise the taxes significantly anyway.

05-31-2004, 01:12 PM	#6
hdrygas Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Olympia Wa Posts: 3,650 My Car: 2004 Prius Package: #9 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	There was a interesting bit on NPR last week on the economy and gas prices that compared Saudi Arabia to a drug pusher who is aware that if the prices go too high countries will start looking for viable alternatives. That is why they will do their best to lower gas prices here in the US. I sure they have a very good idea as to what our tolerances are. The only way to stop this and get a healthier environment and stop burning oil is to be politically active. We need to get the monkey off our back. The first step is to admit we are hooked. Henry Drygas

05-31-2004, 03:24 PM	#10
autoxic Commuter Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 101 My Car: 2004 Prius Package: #7 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	There was a diesel Beetle way back in 1951. See http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/downs/9...sel/diesel.html for an interesting article. However, the Beetle is no substitute for a Prius. Not many good Beetle reviews at http://www.carsurvey.org/model_Volkswagen_Beetle.html . Anyway, diesel may be an option, but isn't it not allowed in California? Why?