So. CA waiting list news. My Experience

daniel · 08-01-2004, 10:19 PM

They mix English and Spanish vocabulary with street slang that belongs to neither language. The result is a language that cannot be understood by either Spanish speakers or English speakers.

Another thing that happens is the loss of grammar as some verb tenses are dropped, resulting in a kind of "broken down" Spanish. It's a shame, really, because legitimate castillian is a rich and beautiful language. Mexican Spanish does not use the vosotros form but is otherwise true to Castillian Spanish in all but the pronounciation of a few letters.

Mexicans speak an excellent Spanish, but there is nothing in all the world to compare with Spanish the way it's spoken in Madrid and the surrounding area.

hdrygas · 08-01-2004, 10:29 PM

Perhaps we are moving to a new creole language. BTW I always thought that problemo was Spanglish, but then I am a Jazzoid.

DaveinOlyWA · 08-01-2004, 11:15 PM

iow... its basically the same thing that americans did to the english language...hmmm must be the water...

or is could be that we are not english but americans with our own culture just as the americans with a mexican heritage are americans. if mexicans want to be like mexicans then they can stay in mexico. but chicanos are americans who want to be american while retaining the best part of their mexican roots.

LeVautRien · 08-01-2004, 11:28 PM

I like that Castillian lisp...can't we all have the Castillian lisp? :mrgreen:

djfrugal · 08-02-2004, 06:10 AM

I am going to stick this on my new prius in dedication to this thread:

http://www.automania.com.au/prod110.htm

From Thailand? Visit Radio No Problemo!:
http://www.surfmusic.de/radios/noproblemofmm.htm

Thanks for the lessons on all my problemas with saying No Problemo!

daniel · 08-02-2004, 10:38 AM

With the exception of Cockney English, Americans and Brits can understand each other just fine. There is some vocabulary only used on one side or the other, but the grammar has not changed.

Apparently Chicanos and Mexicans would have a much harder time understanding each other, unless they were bilingual Chicano/Spanish.

It's not really a lisp. Madrileños still pronounce the S as we do. It's only the Z, and the C when not pronounced like K, which are "lisped." They refer it as the ceceo (pronounced thetheo) to distinguish from the seseo of new world Spanish.

And yes, it's lovely. They also have a slightly different, softer way of pronouncing the S when it occurs in certain places in words. And sometimes a final S or Z is softened to the point where it becomes little more than an exhale of breath, as in the name of the great painter, Velazquez.

On the other hand, in Seville they speak the ugliest Spanish in the world. It's almost as different from Castilian as Chicano is, but with no redeeming features whatsoever.

Whew! Talk about topic drift. Good thing the moderators are lenient.

08-01-2004, 10:19 PM	#21
daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 9,147 My Car: 2004 Prius Package: #6 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	They mix English and Spanish vocabulary with street slang that belongs to neither language. The result is a language that cannot be understood by either Spanish speakers or English speakers. Another thing that happens is the loss of grammar as some verb tenses are dropped, resulting in a kind of "broken down" Spanish. It's a shame, really, because legitimate castillian is a rich and beautiful language. Mexican Spanish does not use the vosotros form but is otherwise true to Castillian Spanish in all but the pronounciation of a few letters. Mexicans speak an excellent Spanish, but there is nothing in all the world to compare with Spanish the way it's spoken in Madrid and the surrounding area. __________________ Daniel ---------------------- Primary car: Zap Xebra SD: 100% electric car. 1.9 cents per mile, using electrons generated from water power. (The Prius is my gas guzzler, used when I have to travel farther than 35 miles in a day.) "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." -- Emma Goldman "Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war." -- Otto von Bismarck

08-02-2004, 06:10 AM	#25
djfrugal Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Glendora, CA Posts: 26 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	stick this I am going to stick this on my new prius in dedication to this thread: http://www.automania.com.au/prod110.htm From Thailand? Visit Radio No Problemo!: http://www.surfmusic.de/radios/noproblemofmm.htm Thanks for the lessons on all my problemas with saying No Problemo!

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08-01-2004, 10:29 PM	#22
hdrygas Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Olympia Wa Posts: 3,650 My Car: 2004 Prius Package: #9 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Perhaps we are moving to a new creole language. BTW I always thought that problemo was Spanglish, but then I am a Jazzoid.

08-01-2004, 11:15 PM	#23
DaveinOlyWA Opps !! I Did it Again!! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: South Puget Sound, WA Posts: 9,661 My Car: 2006 Prius Package: #4 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 5	iow... its basically the same thing that americans did to the english language...hmmm must be the water... or is could be that we are not english but americans with our own culture just as the americans with a mexican heritage are americans. if mexicans want to be like mexicans then they can stay in mexico. but chicanos are americans who want to be american while retaining the best part of their mexican roots.

08-01-2004, 11:28 PM	#24
LeVautRien Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Claremont, California Posts: 367 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I like that Castillian lisp...can't we all have the Castillian lisp? :mrgreen:

08-02-2004, 10:38 AM	#26
daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 9,147 My Car: 2004 Prius Package: #6 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	With the exception of Cockney English, Americans and Brits can understand each other just fine. There is some vocabulary only used on one side or the other, but the grammar has not changed. Apparently Chicanos and Mexicans would have a much harder time understanding each other, unless they were bilingual Chicano/Spanish. It's not really a lisp. Madrileños still pronounce the S as we do. It's only the Z, and the C when not pronounced like K, which are "lisped." They refer it as the ceceo (pronounced thetheo) to distinguish from the seseo of new world Spanish. And yes, it's lovely. They also have a slightly different, softer way of pronouncing the S when it occurs in certain places in words. And sometimes a final S or Z is softened to the point where it becomes little more than an exhale of breath, as in the name of the great painter, Velazquez. On the other hand, in Seville they speak the ugliest Spanish in the world. It's almost as different from Castilian as Chicano is, but with no redeeming features whatsoever. Whew! Talk about topic drift. Good thing the moderators are lenient.