Energy Dump?

daniel · 08-07-2004, 10:45 AM

Toyota is concerned about balancing marketability with efficiency. How much will the average buyer pay to get the advantages provided by greater battery capacity?

Some folks are willing to invest more capital on acquisition in order to achieve greater efficiency. The average buyer is concerned with the market cost:benefit ratio. But techno-geeks and environmentalists are more willing to spend more money for efficiency. I'd probably spend a few grand and give up a little cargo space in order to get an additional 15 mpg, if I felt comfortable about service and warranty issues.

But this does not sound like a DIY project for people like me. Clipping on a few wires and inserting a pin is one thing. Installing a few cubic feet of battery and all the necessary control aparatus is quite another. I'll probably just have to hope it's an option on the next generation Prius.

DaveinOlyWA · 08-07-2004, 11:31 AM

Danny pretty much hit it on the head...

i wouldnt consider it a viable option for aftermarket battery capacity. modern cars today simply dont allow that much extra room for something that heavy or large. now lets face it. the battery pack for the Prius isnt very large.

it would be much easier from an engineering viewpoint to make the existing pack larger than it would to provide connections to hook up two battery packs. i have examined the existing pack and one thing i quickly realized is that the battery pack in order to be safe is an expensive project. the wiring, connections, insulation, etc is a lot of money. all those would have to be duplicated.

a do it yourself system would be flirting with disaster for 90% of the people out there. not to mention how would you be able to effectively incorporate it into a system that is so tightly and well controlled by computer??

i'd rather have Toyota do it and i feel confident that the new 2007 model will have the extra battery capacity option. Look at the Prius. its very design has tried to make it a no compromise solution. i see AC outlets and an upgraded battery pack running about an extra $1000-1500. ( i dont think the market will bear any more and i think that not duplicating all the hardware mentioned above will make this price attainable)

but i strongly believe that there is a market for greater battery storage. so if Toyota doesnt do it, then an aftermarket company will. also, i priced so high quality NiMH batteries similiar to the Toyota battery pack and even if going top of the line, the cost is a very reasonable $800 to double capacity (or replace the existing pack) obviously the battery pack in the Toyota cost much more than that. (the case is probably worth $300-500 by itself)

also keep iin mind that according to Toyota, not overcharging or draining the battery pack adds 300-500% to the life expectancy of the battery pack, so it aint the batteries... its the computer.

ive yet to hear of a battery pack failure, has anyone heard of one?? there is a Vancouver BC taxi cab a 2001 Prius that was featured on a discovery channel segment that had 230,000 miles on it this past spring and its maintenance costs were 45% lower than other vehicles in the fleet. (in a caveat to Toyotas commitment to customer satisfaction, the show stated that the 2001 wore out tires at nearly double the rate of the fleet. maybe that is why Toyota changed the tire on the 2004)

Frank Hudon · 08-07-2004, 11:46 AM

I wish Andrew Grant the owner of the Prius Taxi in Vancouver was an active participant on PriusChat, and I've told him that but he's very active on Yahoo and has in's to Toyota. Not that, that means a lot, but he's very knowledgeable and personable and has a wealth of Prius knowledge. He's currently on his 3rd Prius, a 2k4 after taking his 2nd, a 2k3, and making it his personal car, his first was retuned to Toyota in Japan for tear down and inspection.

DaveinOlyWA · 08-07-2004, 12:07 PM

oh bummer.... i wanted to see him hit 300,000... guess it will have to be another car...

oh well... the perfect acid test for the battery pack is now laying in pieces in a toyota lab.

but that is typical of Toyota...im sure they will learn something as they always seem to.

i can easily picture an american car company wanting to take a great performer like that and putting it in a museum so as to have proof that such a car existed...

Frank Hudon · 08-07-2004, 02:05 PM

Toyota has promised him a complete technical report on wear and such but it's been a couple of months since I've personally talked to him, so don't know for sure what has transpired.

DaveinOlyWA · 08-07-2004, 02:40 PM

keep us posted!!!

that would provide a huge incentative for people wary of new technology~!

08-07-2004, 10:45 AM	#31
daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 9,125 My Car: 2004 Prius Package: #6 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Toyota is concerned about balancing marketability with efficiency. How much will the average buyer pay to get the advantages provided by greater battery capacity? Some folks are willing to invest more capital on acquisition in order to achieve greater efficiency. The average buyer is concerned with the market cost:benefit ratio. But techno-geeks and environmentalists are more willing to spend more money for efficiency. I'd probably spend a few grand and give up a little cargo space in order to get an additional 15 mpg, if I felt comfortable about service and warranty issues. But this does not sound like a DIY project for people like me. Clipping on a few wires and inserting a pin is one thing. Installing a few cubic feet of battery and all the necessary control aparatus is quite another. I'll probably just have to hope it's an option on the next generation Prius. __________________ Daniel ---------------------- Primary car: Zap Xebra SD: 100% electric car. 1.9 cents per mile, using electrons generated from water power. (The Prius is my gas guzzler, used when I have to travel farther than 35 miles in a day.) "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." -- Emma Goldman "Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war." -- Otto von Bismarck

08-07-2004, 11:31 AM	#32
DaveinOlyWA Opps !! I Did it Again!! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: South Puget Sound, WA Posts: 9,544 My Car: 2006 Prius Package: #4 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 5	Danny pretty much hit it on the head... i wouldnt consider it a viable option for aftermarket battery capacity. modern cars today simply dont allow that much extra room for something that heavy or large. now lets face it. the battery pack for the Prius isnt very large. it would be much easier from an engineering viewpoint to make the existing pack larger than it would to provide connections to hook up two battery packs. i have examined the existing pack and one thing i quickly realized is that the battery pack in order to be safe is an expensive project. the wiring, connections, insulation, etc is a lot of money. all those would have to be duplicated. a do it yourself system would be flirting with disaster for 90% of the people out there. not to mention how would you be able to effectively incorporate it into a system that is so tightly and well controlled by computer?? i'd rather have Toyota do it and i feel confident that the new 2007 model will have the extra battery capacity option. Look at the Prius. its very design has tried to make it a no compromise solution. i see AC outlets and an upgraded battery pack running about an extra $1000-1500. ( i dont think the market will bear any more and i think that not duplicating all the hardware mentioned above will make this price attainable) but i strongly believe that there is a market for greater battery storage. so if Toyota doesnt do it, then an aftermarket company will. also, i priced so high quality NiMH batteries similiar to the Toyota battery pack and even if going top of the line, the cost is a very reasonable $800 to double capacity (or replace the existing pack) obviously the battery pack in the Toyota cost much more than that. (the case is probably worth $300-500 by itself) also keep iin mind that according to Toyota, not overcharging or draining the battery pack adds 300-500% to the life expectancy of the battery pack, so it aint the batteries... its the computer. ive yet to hear of a battery pack failure, has anyone heard of one?? there is a Vancouver BC taxi cab a 2001 Prius that was featured on a discovery channel segment that had 230,000 miles on it this past spring and its maintenance costs were 45% lower than other vehicles in the fleet. (in a caveat to Toyotas commitment to customer satisfaction, the show stated that the 2001 wore out tires at nearly double the rate of the fleet. maybe that is why Toyota changed the tire on the 2004) __________________ My 2006: Last tank 463.1 miles @49.2 pump (49.4 computer) 4.22 cpm winter mpg 50.70 summer mpg 54.59 lifetime: 33,038.3 miles 52.79 mpg pump (54.04 mpg computer) 5.74 cpm My 2007 Zenn Driven 5849 miles, 2.00 cpm/ 105 mpg (at $2.05/gal), 4.04 miles/ Kwh Savings over my Prius $300.79 The Corolla...567.79 The REAL SAVINGS from not driving Corolla 657.39 +Prius= 958.18 (excludes maintenance costs...would be unfair to ICE vehicles) My Plate: DUALPWR (Dual Power)

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08-07-2004, 11:46 AM	#33
Frank Hudon Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 4,144 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I wish Andrew Grant the owner of the Prius Taxi in Vancouver was an active participant on PriusChat, and I've told him that but he's very active on Yahoo and has in's to Toyota. Not that, that means a lot, but he's very knowledgeable and personable and has a wealth of Prius knowledge. He's currently on his 3rd Prius, a 2k4 after taking his 2nd, a 2k3, and making it his personal car, his first was retuned to Toyota in Japan for tear down and inspection.

08-07-2004, 12:07 PM	#34
DaveinOlyWA Opps !! I Did it Again!! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: South Puget Sound, WA Posts: 9,544 My Car: 2006 Prius Package: #4 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 5	oh bummer.... i wanted to see him hit 300,000... guess it will have to be another car... oh well... the perfect acid test for the battery pack is now laying in pieces in a toyota lab. but that is typical of Toyota...im sure they will learn something as they always seem to. i can easily picture an american car company wanting to take a great performer like that and putting it in a museum so as to have proof that such a car existed...

08-07-2004, 02:05 PM	#35
Frank Hudon Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 4,144 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Toyota has promised him a complete technical report on wear and such but it's been a couple of months since I've personally talked to him, so don't know for sure what has transpired.

08-07-2004, 02:40 PM	#36
DaveinOlyWA Opps !! I Did it Again!! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: South Puget Sound, WA Posts: 9,544 My Car: 2006 Prius Package: #4 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 5	keep us posted!!! that would provide a huge incentative for people wary of new technology~!