If the engine is not turning, why power off while refueling?

[Earthling]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jamarimutt @ May 14 2007, 04:35 PM) [snapback]441895[/snapback]</div>

It's also illegal to run a red light, but I regularly do it in dark intersections. [/b]

What do you mean by "dark intersections?"

If the lights are out (dark) then the light isn't red. If no lights are working, then you would have to exercise extreme caution and proceed only when safe to do so.

If you mean the light is red and you run it, please post your plate number for the authorities. I don't appreciate red-light runners.

Harry

[richard schumacher]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ichabod @ May 14 2007, 01:25 PM) [snapback]441789[/snapback]</div>

I was under the impression that the answer was already posted:
* Risk of static discharge is increased by a running engine (even if you trust yourself to "ensure" your engine doesn't start, do you trust everyone else? I don't).
* Risk of static discharge increased by active electrical systems.
I think the point of the law is not that you WILL blow up if you don't do as they say, but that you increase the risk. The video linked above is enough for me to say "yeah, it's worth reducing that risk, even if it's a very slim risk to begin with."
[/b]

To clarify, leaving the car on when it is not moving does not affect the generation of static electricity. The danger of static is present whether or not the car is on or the engine is running because static is generated by people moving around.

The law about shutting off the engine is mostly to reduce the possibility of hot exhaust gases as an ignition source. I suppose that putting a Prius in N could satisfy the letter of the law, but why fool with it?

[ystasino]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(richard schumacher @ May 14 2007, 05:01 PM) [snapback]441916[/snapback]</div>

To clarify, leaving the car on when it is not moving does not affect the generation of static electricity. The danger of static is present whether or not the car is on or the engine is running because static is generated by people moving around.

The law about shutting off the engine is mostly to reduce the possibility of hot exhaust gases as an ignition source. I suppose that putting a Prius in N could satisfy the letter of the law, but why fool with it?
[/b]

Thank you

[Charles Suitt]

It's utterly fascinating why a simple question can elicit such a variety of responses. It seems people will rationalize why their procedure, although different from established safety practices, is acceptable. This seems the same logic which results in running traffic signals ("No one was coming") or speeding ("I go with the traffic") or parking in a Disabled spot ("I was in a hurry"), or adding fuel with the motor running regardless of the posted warning, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

It is good for a laugh.

For myself, I will err on the side of caution. I recall being in a Mooney Super 21 (aircraft) with my Instructor when an inspection plate popped open with the engine idling. I insisted powering off for him to exit and secure the plate, even though fuel-injected engines can sometimes be hard to re-start hot. I didn't want to chance chopping him up with the prop.

[nerfer]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ichabod @ May 14 2007, 01:25 PM) [snapback]441789[/snapback]</div>

I was under the impression that the answer was already posted:

* Risk of static discharge is increased by a running engine (even if you trust yourself to "ensure" your engine doesn't start, do you trust everyone else? I don't).

* Risk of static discharge increased by active electrical systems.
[/b]

That's true to a point. Most static electricity around cars that people notice is caused by them sliding into/out of the seat. People write in to these car pundits in the newspaper and they keep pointing them to grounding straps that hang off the car you can buy, but the real problem is fuzzy seat covers.

That's why the gas cap panel only pops out a little bit when you open it remotely - they force you to touch it to open it the rest of the way, and that puts you at the same ground as the car, before you open the gas cap and introduce gas fumes to the vicinity.

I'm not sure if I buy the hot exhaust theory though - that system doesn't cool significantly in a minute or two, so it doesn't really matter if it's warm. I think it's a general safety measure so the kid (or puppy) you left in the car doesn't slip it into gear and knock over a pump. In the old days, there probably were more sparks under the hood or static buildup with the engine on. For the one time a month I fill up the car, I can take the time to turn it off, for these reasons and in case there's another situation I didn't think of.

[donee]

Hi All,

Their is some reason they call the kinds of engines in car the "Spark Ignition" type. Hmm...


And there is no 100 % certainty that your igintion wires wont leak spark, and your fuel lines are leak proof. Running down the road, leaking gas is behind you quick. At a station, its puddling and fuming on hot asphalt under a hot catalytic converter, fuming up into an engine comparment with possible stray arcs.

On my three mile drive home from the gas station, after shutting off the car, depending on traffic, I have gotten as much as 75 mpg. I do not think the cool down is much of a hit.

And static electricty is truly awsome! In my younger days, when I was lead by some guys who did not know any better I was 3 feet from a 2 foot long, 1 inch diameter blue-white spark of static that went off like a M-80! This was on a windy day at the top of a 150 foot tower. The people hauling an antenna that consisted of about 50 feet of aluminum tubing used nylon rope. As the antenna took 20 minutes to be hoisted, it was in free space and insulated. As the antenna neared the top of the tower, it was rapidly swung close to the tower for the top-crew to guide into final position and bolt down. CRACK !

[hobbit]

Static electricity buildup has NOTHING to do with the engine or
hybrid electrical system. C'mon. You generate all that voltage
by simply sliding your butt on the seat.
.
There are no high-voltage spark plug wires in the prius.
.
The greatest likelihood of generating sparks from the electrical
system is DURING power up or power down -- when all those many
relays open up and have their little inductive-kickback arcs. Is
that what you want going on right above the puddle of spilled gas
that the previous customer left for you? Or would you rather have
the system remain stable during your visit?
.
I think you can see where I'm going with this. The topic has come
up before, too, and hashed to death.
.
_H*

[alexstarfire]

Ok, with the high digressing of the whole static electricity debacle I'll try to get this back on track.

The past several times I've filled up, if it's warm enough to do this, I will just set the car in N and put on the parking brake to fill up. Of course I make sure the engine isn't running. While in N the engine won't start if it's off. The engine way cut off if it's on though. I've been told that it won't, but I know that in my '02 Prius that it will.

Anyways, the reason I do this is to prevent that "first 5 minute" crap from happening. Doesn't matter how long the car has actually been off. If you turn it off then back on the first 5 minutes will almost certainly suck, so I don't turn the car off, just to avoid that.

As for the static electricity, just touch yourself to something metal before touching the gas pump. Usually when I get out of my car I touch at least the door, not purposefully, and I'll discharge any static electricity that I have. For the longest time it would happen every time I got out of the car, guess the weather changed that. Never had a problem before, and don't see myself having the problem in the future.

[richard schumacher]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ystasino @ May 14 2007, 04:41 PM) [snapback]441943[/snapback]</div>

Thank you
[/b]

You're welcome. If your parking brake ever fails while you're refuelling and the car pulls the hose out of the pump, do let us know :_>

[slair]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jamarimutt @ May 14 2007, 04:35 PM) [snapback]441895[/snapback]</div>

It's also illegal to run a red light, but I regularly do it in dark intersections.
[/b]

Nice knowin ya. Keep that up, I give you about another 5 years till your parents are buying a coffin and are stuck salvaging a prius. :P