Are they training the salespeople incorrectly?

[PriusMatt]

I spoke to my dad recently and his salesman in Ohio said that the engine does not start until the car gets to 40 mph. That triggered a memory of one of my test drives here in California of a salesman saying the same thing. I even told him that "I think I just heard the engine engage" after modest acceleration from a stop. I don't remember his response to that.

For me, even with pretty modest acceleration, I usually hear the engine start. It is difficult for me to drive around town only under battery. (My battery meter is often AT LEAST half charged, and more likely to be 3/4 charged.) I have to accelerate extremely slowly to NOT engage the engine. Is this normal?

I suspect that the salespeople are interpreting their sales literature incorrectly since I just read that the engine is forced to stay on over 40 mph. But really, wouldn't even the most dense salesman realize that the engine is engaging at lower speeds? (Or am I the dense one by not driving the car correctly?)

[devprius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PriusMatt @ Jul 17 2007, 02:48 PM) [snapback]480542[/snapback]</div>

I spoke to my dad recently and his salesman in Ohio said that the engine does not start until the car gets to 40 mph. That triggered a memory of one of my test drives here in California of a salesman saying the same thing. I even told him that "I think I just heard the engine engage" after modest acceleration from a stop. I don't remember his response to that.

For me, even with pretty modest acceleration, I usually here the engine start. It is difficult for me to drive around town only under battery. (My battery meter is often AT LEAST half charged, and more likely to be 3/4 charged.) I have to accelerate extremely slowly to NOT engage the engine. Is this normal?

I suspect that the salespeople are interpreting their sales literature incorrectly since I just read that the engine is forced to stay on over 40 mph. But really, wouldn't even the most dense salesman realize that the engine is engaging at lower speeds? (Or am I the dense one by not driving the car correctly?)
[/b]

Relax, you are not driving the car incorrectly. The salesmen are the incorrect ones. While you can get the car to run on battery only, it requires that you have the car warmed up and sufficient battery charge, and use light acceleration. Or have an EV switch and still have sufficient battery charge.

It definitely sounds like the salesman are morons. There are times I'd like to see Toyota have some sort of quality control program for the training of their salesmen. You know, have someone come into the dealership and pretend to shop for a Prius and ask specific questions and see if the salesman (or woman) knows their stuff. And then present the findings to the dealership management, or the district manager, and have them take the appropriate action.

[FL_Prius_Driver]

Unfortunately, most salesmen are trained on pressure sales techniques and what the latest sales gotcha's are working ("green" being the lastest plug). The only "formal" training is a one or two day seminar on new releases. For example, the new Hylander Hybrid is the present vehicle the salesmen/women are being trained upon. There are a few who go the extra mile to learn about the Prius....very few.

The following are three independently run entities.

Toyota Japan (sells the cars to Toyota USA)
Toyota USA - broken down into various areas like Southeast Toyota (sells the cars to the Dealer)
The Dealer (sells the car to the individual)

This creates quite a bit of isolation between what Toyota Japan wants (educated sales staff) and what the dealer wants (low paid salesmen that sell cars at high prices).

[JimN]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PriusMatt @ Jul 17 2007, 06:48 PM) [snapback]480542[/snapback]</div>

I spoke to my dad recently and his salesman in Ohio said that the engine does not start until the car gets to 40 mph. That triggered a memory of one of my test drives here in California of a salesman saying the same thing. I even told him that "I think I just heard the engine engage" after modest acceleration from a stop. I don't remember his response to that.

For me, even with pretty modest acceleration, I usually here the engine start. It is difficult for me to drive around town only under battery. (My battery meter is often AT LEAST half charged, and more likely to be 3/4 charged.) I have to accelerate extremely slowly to NOT engage the engine. Is this normal?

I suspect that the salespeople are interpreting their sales literature incorrectly since I just read that the engine is forced to stay on over 40 mph. But really, wouldn't even the most dense salesman realize that the engine is engaging at lower speeds? (Or am I the dense one by not driving the car correctly?)
[/b]

You are 100% correct and experiencing normal operation. Many salesmen don't know much about their product as the important stuff to know is how to get the most out of the customer.

[qbee42]

Not only is it normal, but you get better mileage running off of the engine. The Prius tries to operate in a way that produces the lowest emissions and gets the best mileage. Driving around on the battery makes little sense when it's just going to have to run the engine to charge the battery. Think of the battery as a flywheel that stores a small amount of energy. When you have extra energy, like braking, it puts that energy into the flywheel. When you need a bit of a boost, it pulls energy out of the flywheel. Some of the energy is lost putting it into the flywheel and retrieving it, so it is less efficient than just getting it from the engine, but if it is power that would be lost anyway, then it is essentially free.

This is a bit of an over simplification, but it helps with the general idea.

Tom

[pwalta]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qbee42 @ Jul 17 2007, 10:32 PM) [snapback]480692[/snapback]</div>

Not only is it normal, but you get better mileage running off of the engine. The Prius tries to operate in a way that produces the lowest emissions and gets the best mileage. Driving around on the battery makes little sense when it's just going to have to run the engine to charge the battery. Think of the battery as a flywheel that stores a small amount of energy. When you have extra energy, like braking, it puts that energy into the flywheel. When you need a bit of a boost, it pulls energy out of the flywheel. Some of the energy is lost putting it into the flywheel and retrieving it, so it is less efficient than just getting it from the engine, but if it is power that would be lost anyway, then it is essentially free.

This is a bit of an over simplification, but it helps with the general idea.

Tom
[/b]

When we bought our Prius our salesman asked if we wanted to order the sunroof.

[ZA_Andy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PriusMatt @ Jul 17 2007, 06:48 PM) [snapback]480542[/snapback]</div>

I spoke to my dad recently and his salesman in Ohio said that the engine does not start until the car gets to 40 mph. That triggered a memory of one of my test drives here in California of a salesman saying the same thing. I even told him that "I think I just heard the engine engage" after modest acceleration from a stop. I don't remember his response to that.

For me, even with pretty modest acceleration, I usually hear the engine start. It is difficult for me to drive around town only under battery. (My battery meter is often AT LEAST half charged, and more likely to be 3/4 charged.) I have to accelerate extremely slowly to NOT engage the engine. Is this normal?

I suspect that the salespeople are interpreting their sales literature incorrectly since I just read that the engine is forced to stay on over 40 mph. But really, wouldn't even the most dense salesman realize that the engine is engaging at lower speeds? (Or am I the dense one by not driving the car correctly?)[/b]

I rather think that many salespeople have very little idea how the car works, and others deliberately misrepresent it in order to make it appear to be more energy efficient and use less fuel than it actually does.

In the first dealership I went to, the salesman clearly knew what buttons to push to get potential buyers interested, but couldn't answer even basic questions about how the thing worked, and either stumbled through improbable answers or made them up completely. At the second dealership, the salesman actually owed a Prius and gave precise and accurate information about how it worked and what to expect from it.

You're certainly not driving it incorrectly. It does take very gentle acceleration to stay on battery only above about 12-15 mph, but however gentle, the engine will cut in above 22 anyway. You can get the car to revert to battery-only under certain conditions, often by feathering the throttle until the energy monitor screen shows no arrows, meaning you're coasting, and then applying a small amount of acceleration, bringing the yellow arrows from battery to wheels. This works for flat or gently undulating/downslope travel, and even allows some gentle up-slopes to be driven in electric mode.

It isn't really the case that electric-only power in less efficient, because while it's true that the energy used has to be replaced, it isn't necessarily replaced by using fuel in the petrol engine. As an example, the last 1.5 miles of my daily commute is a long stretch of road that drops about 150 feet in altitude over a series of small undulations and ending in about 1500 feet of gentle downslope to traffic lights. At the beginning of that section my battery typically shows two empty bars at the top as I feather the throttle and then get into EV. Up until the last 1500 feet the battery SOC drops a couple of bars, but in the last 15 feet, I lift off and let regenerative braking slow the car for the lights (I turn right so I have to slow down to an almost stop anyway), and by the time I reach the lights, the SOC is back up to the same two empty bars.

[ohershey]

I actually had an interesting conversation with the salesman at my local dealership when we went back to buy the wife's Highlander hybrid. He actually expressed a tiny bit of frustration that the customers who were buying Prii had better information availabe than he did in some cases. This was shortly after I showed him how some of the Nav system controls worked... I suggested priuschat to him, but he's an older guy who has been selling cars for 35 years, and doesn't really get "That there internet thingy."

I will keep buying cars from the guy, at least until he retires, because he has mastered two things: low pressure sales and listening to his customer, but there is really no way a guy like that is going to be 100% on a vehicle as complex as the Prius.

[priusincc]

Generally, I have always known more about a particular car when dealing with salesmen. Most of them don't take the time to really get to know the product, just the sales techniques as others have said. Maybe it's because they are invloved with so many models. All you have to do is read the brochure, but I usually do a lot more research before any car or other purchases. If I were a car salesmen, instead of standing around waiting for a customer to come in, I would be reading the brochures, and the current ad they are running in the local newspaper.

[MaulWalker]

My salesperson told me that the metal key in the fob was so I could lock the glovebox.