Red Triangle/Dealer Refusing to Honor Hybrid Warranty?

[SanPR]

I'm Back!

It gave Error message P3009...Turns out I had issues with the transmission / transaxle....

Is there a chance that running out of gas also messed up the transmission?? heh I dont think so, but who knows.....

so.. its another 5k... cuz its 80K and the warranty for that only goes to 60k...

[miscrms]

Originally Posted by SanPR

I'm Back!

It gave Error message P3009...Turns out I had issues with the transmission / transaxle....

Is there a chance that running out of gas also messed up the transmission?? heh I dont think so, but who knows.....

so.. its another 5k... cuz its 80K and the warranty for that only goes to 60k...

Hmmm... I suppose its feasible that running out of gas at highway speed could over rpm or overheat the electric drive system if you try and push it to hard? How fast were you going when the dash lit up?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was the full hybrid system had to be covered by your EPA emissions warranty. From the Toyota 2008 model info "Hybrid-related components for hybrid vehicles are covered for 8 years/100,000 miles." Seems like the transaxle should be considered a "hybrid-related component"? Now, whether they could argue your changing the HV battery could have damaged the transaxle is a different question.

Rob

[galaxee]

P3009 that's a high voltage leak! you need information codes to know where it is leaking from before you decide it's the transaxle.

[SanPR]

Originally Posted by miscrms

Hmmm... I suppose its feasible that running out of gas at highway speed could over rpm or overheat the electric drive system if you try and push it to hard? How fast were you going when the dash lit up?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was the full hybrid system had to be covered by your EPA emissions warranty. From the Toyota 2008 model info "Hybrid-related components for hybrid vehicles are covered for 8 years/100,000 miles." Seems like the transaxle should be considered a "hybrid-related component"? Now, whether they could argue your changing the HV battery could have damaged the transaxle is a different question.

Rob

Guy didnt ask me if the battery was replaced or anything, maybe he is not aware of it???

In any case, when he said the price, I asked if it was covered under the warranty for the Hybrid system, he said that that would be covered under the drivetrain which runs out at 60K...

I tell you, Im getting tired... The P3009 message did not pop up before, so I dont know....

I would take it to other dealer, but this is the closest one to the house... and I dont want to mess it up further...

[miscrms]

BTW, I agree there is an important lesson for everyone here. Don't run out of gas! If you do, don't just keep driving!

For reference, a few quotes from the 2005 Owners Manual & Pocket Guide:

"NOTE: MAINTAIN GASOLINE IN THE TANK AT ALL TIMES. SERIOUS DAMAGE TO THE HYBRID SYSTEM CAN OCCUR IF THE VEHICLE RUNS OUT OF GAS."

"If the fuel level approaches E or the low fuel indicator blinks, fill the tank as soon as possible."

"It is a good idea to keep the tank over 1/4 full."

"Depending on ambient temperature, the fuel quantity is less than 11.9 gal even at F"

"This light blinks when the fuel level in the tank becomes nearly empty. Fill up the tank as soon as possible."

"Do not drive with an extremely low fuel level; running out of gas could cause the engine to misfire, creating an excessive load on the three-way catalytic converter."

Rob

[Winston]

What a total bummer. That is a lot of expensive stuff to fail on that Prius. FWIW, the OP did not start off by trying to bash Toyota. He was clearly just trying to trouble shoot he car at its current state. The bashing happened when people started questioning him on the history of his problem.

While I find it strange that Toyota would let you drive on the battery until it caused irreversible damage to the battery, it is not that surprising.

The same could be said for the level of warning that a "low oil pressure light" gives. A little red oil can light does not give the feeling that impending doom is immanent. Yet, we all know that low oil pressure can completely destroy an engine.

Having said that, I understand the difficulties in forcing your engine to shut down when it senses low oil pressure. However, I seems like it would be simple to shut down the Prius when it reaches a certain low level of charge.

[SanPR]

Originally Posted by Winston

What a total bummer. That is a lot of expensive stuff to fail on that Prius. FWIW, the OP did not start off by trying to bash Toyota. He was clearly just trying to trouble shoot he car at its current state. The bashing happened when people started questioning him on the history of his problem.

While I find it strange that Toyota would let you drive on the battery until it caused irreversible damage to the battery, it is not that surprising.

The same could be said for the level of warning that a "low oil pressure light" gives. A little red oil can light does not give the feeling that impending doom is immanent. Yet, we all know that low oil pressure can completely destroy an engine.

Having said that, I understand the difficulties in forcing your engine to shut down when it senses low oil pressure. However, I seems like it would be simple to shut down the Prius when it reaches a certain low level of charge.

Shhh.. dont say nothing too loud.. It might start again...

anyways, this guy is fishy... I ask him to send me the diagnostics via fax so I can research before I give him the go ahead, he says he doesnt have a fax machine handy... come on.....

I can change the battery, I did change it...

now a transmission... that is scary.... I cant do that one!!!! heheh

its just that reading around, everyone that has had trouble with the transmission in the car describe all kinds of ungodly noises (well... noises at least) I dont recall any noise!!! and the car runs! bad transmission would suggest to me at least noises and no movement!!!

and he did confirm that only the P3009 message was showing...

oh well... I gotta remember to buy a lotto ticket tonight... maybe by tomorrow it wont matter...

[SanPR]

Double post... sorry!

[Presto]

Originally Posted by Winston

While I find it strange that Toyota would let you drive on the battery until it caused irreversible damage to the battery, it is not that surprising.

There's measures in place for running out gas and not killing the battery. What happens is when you run out of gas, the Prius will run on battery power until it shuts down at a certain SoC. I suspect it lets the SoC drop to ~30%, and then shuts down. Now at the point it shuts down, you're not supposed to try to turn on the system again to see how far you can still make it. The remaining power is used to start the system again, and also run the gas pump once more fuel is put in. There have been cases where people try to start the Prius again before putting in more gas and repeated attempts of doing this will completely drain the HV battery, and could cause other damage, like the pumps.

[miscrms]

Originally Posted by SanPR

Shhh.. dont say nothing too loud.. It might start again...

anyways, this guy is fishy... I ask him to send me the diagnostics via fax so I can research before I give him the go ahead, he says he doesnt have a fax machine handy... come on.....

I can change the battery, I did change it...

now a transmission... that is scary.... I cant do that one!!!! heheh

its just that reading around, everyone that has had trouble with the transmission in the car describe all kinds of ungodly noises (well... noises at least) I dont recall any noise!!! and the car runs! bad transmission would suggest to me at least noises and no movement!!!

Yeah, I would agree that sounds a little fishy. I suppose an over temp on one of the motors could damage the insulation and result in a leakage to chasis which would probably throw the leakage code. If its a problem with the electric motors though (which are part of the transmission/transaxle) I would think that would qualify as "hybrid-related equipment" as defined by the warranty. It would seem to me like there are a lot of other places this leakage could occur, I would particularly check all around where you installed the new battery. It wouldn't take much to throw that leakage code, as I understand its very sensitive (like a GFI outlet). Even just some grease on the contacts, or if any of the HV lines got pinched at all could probably trip it. I can see how running the battery low would weaken it and result in a delayed failure. I'm not so sure that an electric motor would go this way though.

I think you definitely need to get him to explain to you exactly what he thinks is wrong and why and why its not part of the hybrid system. I would still consider a second opinion too.

BTW, here is an example (albeit on a gen 1) of P3009 supposedly linked to transaxle electrical failure and not covered under warranty:
Replacing A First Generation Prius Transaxle

Rob