Admit Nothing

[galaxee]

Originally Posted by andyprius

Good point Galaxee and I agree totally, as a former troubleshooter BUT I was mostly blaming toyota dealership management of being quick to blame the customer. Not mentioned in Ginees case: No burn or arcing marks on either the positive OR the ground connection terminals for jumping. Has your husband seen much of this? Of course that would be proof positive. Andy.

well, unfortunately the non-experts are usually the ones with the biggest mouths when it comes to dealership employees... have seen that more than a few times on this site alone.

he did see a handful of cases of blown inverters (well, dc-dc converters, but that requires inverter replacement) due to reverse polarity jumpstarting. we first reported it on the site in 2006. one inverter survived with a ton of blown fuses throughout the rest of the car, the others were toast. non warranty.

[GinnyErns]

Stealerships.....that's what I am talking about...thanks for who ever mentioned that....Pretty sure the tech's are paid by the hour not by how many cars they service in a day. And we customers get to pay by the hour...............seems if the stealership can tell you there is a $3500 part you need instead of a $350 part guess they will do it........so where is their conscience.

I never dreamed my car would not be covered by the warranty. The tech I talked to even lead me to believe all would be covered under warranty. It never occured to me to withhold information from them. At this point I am just praying that the truth will win out..................if you find any other cases like mine please post on the "I blew up the inverter" thread................thanks Ginny

[andyprius]

Originally Posted by galaxee

yes, i am talking about dealer techs. and by withholding pertinent information you are wasting the time of a professional. that is a sign of utmost disrespect in any professional community, and the favor will be returned.

the flat rate system's flaws are not your fault. but yes, the lost income opportunities are your fault if you choose to waste someone's time by not revealing something pertinent and obvious that would save several hours of diagnosis time.

There is no wasted time, car will not start, go to battery. Hybrid or non-hybrid.

[andyprius]

Originally Posted by galaxee

well, unfortunately the non-experts are usually the ones with the biggest mouths when it comes to dealership employees... have seen that more than a few times on this site alone.

he did see a handful of cases of blown inverters (well, dc-dc converters, but that requires inverter replacement) due to reverse polarity jumpstarting. we first reported it on the site in 2006. one inverter survived with a ton of blown fuses throughout the rest of the car, the others were toast. non warranty.

Actually my question was: Has your husband seen signs of arcing, burned marks and possibly partially melted post??? Connecting 12 Volts to ground is called a short circuit and leaves evidence. If: there are no signs, then the jumper connection was in order. Period.

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by GinnyErns

Stealerships.....that's what I am talking about...thanks for who ever mentioned that....Pretty sure the tech's are paid by the hour not by how many cars they service in a day. And we customers get to pay by the hour... Ginny

Auto repairs are done by the flat rate book. If the book says a repair takes one and a half hours then you are billed for that amount and the tech is paid for that amount. The tech who gets it done in less time gets to move on to another project to make more money and the customer spends less time in the waiting room but pays the same. The down side is that if the tech gets bogged down in a repair and spends more time than allotted he looses because his average rate of pay falls when he can't move on to the next project.

Naturally the tech wants any clues he can get as to what preceded or precipitated the failure. A nice description of the exact complaint helps too.

[JimboK]

Partly devil's advocate here ....

I'm sure Evan will agree that patients withholding information about their medical history or current problems can make his diagnosis more difficult or prescribed treatment inappropriate. Galaxee's Prius "doctor" seems to suggest the same for cars.

[efusco]

Originally Posted by JimboK

Partly devil's advocate here ....

I'm sure Evan will agree that patients withholding information about their medical history or current problems can make his diagnosis more difficult or prescribed treatment inappropriate. Galaxee's Prius "doctor" seems to suggest the same for cars.

Indeed that's quite true...at the same time patients who think they know what's wrong already can lead you down the wrong path as well. I want as accurate of a history as I can get, but with a clear description of symptoms...that's where I start and I'll ask questions from there.

A similar example...
"Doc, my knee hurts."
I'm going to ask right off--"did you injure it." I don't really need that information volunteered up front, but I DO need an honest response. I think the car/inverter example is similar. "Doc, my car won't start"...the good diagnostic tech will ask the pertainent questions to get to a diagnosis...and I firmly believe the car owner should not lie or evade direct questions....but sometimes volunteering too much can be just as misleading and may get the tech focused on what he assumes is the problem rather than looking at the whole picture.

Like I said, it's a fine line.

[KayakerNC]

Originally Posted by efusco

A similar example...
"Doc, my knee hurts."
I'm going to ask right off--"did you injure it." I don't really need that information volunteered up front, but I DO need an honest response. I think the car/inverter example is similar.

Hey, what a coincidence, my 69 y/o knee hurts.
Oh....never mind.

[Porsche998]

My policy has been always to suggest where the problem may be. Althoug Toyota Dealerships may not be run the same way, I was told that at a large GM dealership, the Service Manager etc. were paid in part on a commission basis. THis meant that if one came in and said that my car needs a valve job - they did a valve job and that was it - even if the problem was the car needed rings. That way the customer was charged twice for taking the engine apart and they couldn't blame the Dervice since they had originally instructed the service what to do.

On the other had, at the dealershop in question, when the techs were slow, they gave them cars were someone provided a general complaint and ran up the bill for general troubleshooting.

I hope that this process was unique to that dealership - (I was told the same story by two individuals who had previous worked at the dealership.

[richard schumacher]

Originally Posted by galaxee

yes, i am talking about dealer techs. and by withholding pertinent information you are wasting the time of a professional. that is a sign of utmost disrespect in any professional community, and the favor will be returned.

the flat rate system's flaws are not your fault. but yes, the lost income opportunities are your fault if you choose to waste someone's time by not revealing something pertinent and obvious that would save several hours of diagnosis time.

That is the ethical position; sad to say a lot of customers will not be moved by the argument. But forthrightness is also in the customer's interest. On average, the more the tech knows the sooner the customer will get their car back.