Admit Nothing

[andyprius]

This is a follow-up to "I blew up my inverter" by Ginnie. Those of you still lucky enough to be on your original warranty, be on guard when talking to any representative of your Toyota dealership. If you tried to fix the car, jumper it, do not admit it. Say only "The car quit and it would not start, I don't know why." Let the Toyota techs, Service reps, salespeople, janitor, etc make all the guesses and supply false assuptions. In Ginnies case she was forthright and open, so immediately they blamed HER for breaking the car. I would like to hope that this attitude and method of assuring a "Non Warranty" is not the Standard Procedure for all Toyotas Dealers. The owner of the car is not expected to be the expert. So remember, sometimes you are dealing with the enemy, so volunteer nothing!

[efusco]

It's a fine line to walk, I think...depending upon your values. I tend to have a hard time keeping my trap shut. That said you certainly induce a prejudice if you say too much and I think there's a tendency to prefer to blame the customer rather than just to find out what's wrong.

I think it is wise to reveal little more than what you're asked. But, in Ginny's case for instance, if I were asked directly if I'd attempted to jump start the car I would answer honestly. If not asked then I think I'd let them figure out what's wrong first.

[misslexi]

Andyprius is right. When I took mine in because the CD changer would not play, the first thing out of the service writer's mouth once he saw my Sirius plugged into the aux jack; "I wonder if that could be causing the problem?".

I don't advocate lying at all, nor do I personally engage in such, but sometimes I think it's best to keep my mouth shut.

I guess where I would draw the line is if I tried one or more things to fix a problem that I knew in advance, or discovered afterward, could itself cause damage, I wouldn't try to sweep it under the rug. If I truly had no reason to think what I did was harmful, I wouldn't feel the need to share the information lest it be "used against me". In either case, if I were asked if I had tried something specific, and I had, I would answer truthfully.

[pviebey]

Certainly volunteering information may be bad. But, OTOH, I think there's a certain 'reasonableness' question (for me anyways). For example, let's say the Sirius WAS causing the problem - my answer would be "Gee, that's a bad design - it's an AUX IN jack and I was using it for it's intended purpose."

In Ginnie's case, I'd pay for it, and then take it (the dealer, as the agent for Toyota) to small claims court, where it's on THEM to prove in some kind of reasonable way that I caused the fault. I would say the court is pre-disposed to favor the consumer to start with, and unless they were there, or have an expert to say the "ONLY" way it could have failed is due to the operator. My experience has been, btw, that sending a certified letter to notify of the intent to sue and request payment usually gets people to do the 'right thing'.

Not an attorney, don't play one on TV - but DO stand up for my rights, and recommend others not ignore small claims when necessary as a means to get justice. I went through that EXACT scenario with a carwash who managed to dump enough cleaner inside the console of my car to short out a $600 computer, and then tried to say it was my fault. Notice of intent to file for the repair plus my additional costs as a result of the damage got them to cough it up.


But, when in doubt, DON'T volunteer any information is always good.


pat

[GatorJZ]

Originally Posted by pviebey

Certainly volunteering information may be bad. But, OTOH, I think there's a certain 'reasonableness' question (for me anyways). For example, let's say the Sirius WAS causing the problem - my answer would be "Gee, that's a bad design - it's an AUX IN jack and I was using it for it's intended purpose."

In Ginnie's case, I'd pay for it, and then take it (the dealer, as the agent for Toyota) to small claims court, where it's on THEM to prove in some kind of reasonable way that I caused the fault. I would say the court is pre-disposed to favor the consumer to start with, and unless they were there, or have an expert to say the "ONLY" way it could have failed is due to the operator. My experience has been, btw, that sending a certified letter to notify of the intent to sue and request payment usually gets people to do the 'right thing'.

Not an attorney, don't play one on TV - but DO stand up for my rights, and recommend others not ignore small claims when necessary as a means to get justice. I went through that EXACT scenario with a carwash who managed to dump enough cleaner inside the console of my car to short out a $600 computer, and then tried to say it was my fault. Notice of intent to file for the repair plus my additional costs as a result of the damage got them to cough it up.


But, when in doubt, DON'T volunteer any information is always good.


pat

I am an attorney and you have it EXACTLY backwards. The burden is always on the plaintiff to prove their case. If she sues, she has the burden. Well intentioned, but bad advice.

[galaxee]

hey guys, uh, on behalf of the guy who has to figure out what's wrong with your car i'd like to mention that they usually don't get paid much for the time they spend finding out the problem. sure you could conceal a critical bit of information. and sometimes that critical information, once discovered, makes the situation plainly obvious anyway. but at that point the tech has spent a day or so tracing wires and whanot for peanuts when he could have been doing 60k max services that put food on the table. so now he's pissed, and has time to make up for because you could have just told him in the first place...

just a thought to ponder.

[hiremichaelreid]

Originally Posted by andyprius

So remember, sometimes you are dealing with the enemy, so volunteer nothing!

I agree. So many companies try to blame the user/customer first.

Here's an idea for those who consider themselves "too honest": Have your wife or SO or a relative bring the car in and deal with the service people. You can limit your contact with the dealer to over the phone and if they start asking too many questions, you just tell them to call back later, because you have to get back to work or your kids or whatever...

[hiremichaelreid]

Originally Posted by galaxee

hey guys, uh, on behalf of the guy who has to figure out what's wrong with your car i'd like to mention that they usually don't get paid much for the time they spend finding out the problem. sure you could conceal a critical bit of information. and sometimes that critical information, once discovered, makes the situation plainly obvious anyway. but at that point the tech has spent a day or so tracing wires and whanot for peanuts when he could have been doing 60k max services that put food on the table. so now he's pissed, and has time to make up for because you could have just told him in the first place...

just a thought to ponder.

Are you talking about dealer techs ? Are you serious that "concealing information" will make the poor techs kids go starving ? Is that how it works at stealerships ?

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for "poor dealers". If the techs are going hungry, that's the evil dealers' "fault", not mine...

[andyprius]

Originally Posted by galaxee

hey guys, uh, on behalf of the guy who has to figure out what's wrong with your car i'd like to mention that they usually don't get paid much for the time they spend finding out the problem. sure you could conceal a critical bit of information. and sometimes that critical information, once discovered, makes the situation plainly obvious anyway. but at that point the tech has spent a day or so tracing wires and whanot for peanuts when he could have been doing 60k max services that put food on the table. so now he's pissed, and has time to make up for because you could have just told him in the first place...

just a thought to ponder.

Good point Galaxee and I agree totally, as a former troubleshooter BUT I was mostly blaming toyota dealership management of being quick to blame the customer. Not mentioned in Ginees case: No burn or arcing marks on either the positive OR the ground connection terminals for jumping. Has your husband seen much of this? Of course that would be proof positive. Andy.

[galaxee]

Originally Posted by hiremichaelreid

Are you talking about dealer techs ? Are you serious that "concealing information" will make the poor techs kids go starving ? Is that how it works at stealerships ?

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for "poor dealers". If the techs are going hungry, that's the evil dealers' "fault", not mine...

yes, i am talking about dealer techs. and by withholding pertinent information you are wasting the time of a professional. that is a sign of utmost disrespect in any professional community, and the favor will be returned.

the flat rate system's flaws are not your fault. but yes, the lost income opportunities are your fault if you choose to waste someone's time by not revealing something pertinent and obvious that would save several hours of diagnosis time.