Looking to buy - 08 Prius vs. 09 Jetta TDI

[reewrd]

I have some questions for the Prius owners out here. I drive about 12k - 15k miles a year, mostly city stop and go. I have a deposit on a Prius as well as a new Jetta TDI. I don't know which car I'm going to buy yet, but I am leaning toward the Prius.

In the next week or so, my Prius is supposed to arrive (on a waiting list), but the more I read about VW's TDI motor the more I am unsure of which is best. The Jetta costs about 2k more, but the Jetta is a wagon, which is nice becuase I have two small kids and it has lots of space. The VW TDI gets 38MPG around town and 55MPG on the freeway. That said, I don't like the idea of always having to look for a station that sells diesel. The TDI motor will last forever, and there no batteries to worry about. Mechanically I ultimately see the TDI as trouble free and the better mechancial combo - is this wrong?

I am curious to know what kind of mileage do you see, worst case, with a Prius driving short trips around town ? I have done most of my "ROI" calculations assuming the Prius will get 45mpg around town. Does that sound right? Using these numbers the Prius will pay for itself more quickly than the VW because of the slight MPG avantage, less expensive fuel, and a slightly lower MSRP. These $$ factors have me leaning toward the Prius.

As owners, are there any other things you might point out that will sway me toward the Prius?

Thanks.

[cwerdna]

Originally Posted by reewrd

I have some questions for the Prius owners out here. I drive about 12k - 15k miles a year, mostly city stop and go. I have a deposit on a Prius as well as a new Jetta TDI. I don't know which car I'm going to buy yet, but I am leaning toward the Prius.

In the next week or so, my Prius is supposed to arrive (on a waiting list), but the more I read about VW's TDI motor the more I am unsure of which is best. The Jetta costs about 2k more, but the Jetta is a wagon, which is nice becuase I have two small kids and it has lots of space. The VW TDI gets 38MPG around town and 55MPG on the freeway. That said, I don't like the idea of always having to look for a station that sells diesel. The TDI motor will last forever, and there no batteries to worry about. Mechanically I ultimately see the TDI as trouble free and the better mechancial combo - is this wrong?

I am curious to know what kind of mileage do you see, worst case, with a Prius driving short trips around town ? I have done most of my "ROI" calculations assuming the Prius will get 45mpg around town. Does that sound right? Using these numbers the Prius will pay for itself more quickly than the VW because of the slight MPG avantage, less expensive fuel, and a slightly lower MSRP. These $$ factors have me leaning toward the Prius.

As owners, are there any other things you might point out that will sway me toward the Prius?

Thanks.

Official EPA numbers for the VW TDI you speak of were released. See EPA Mileage Released for 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI - Latest News, Features, and Reviews - Automobile Magazine and fueleconomy.gov.

Even if the engine lasts "forever" (fat chance given it's a VW), you'll likely have plenty of "fun" getting everything else in the car repaired. VW reliability is terrible and most of their models have below average reliability vs. the Prius which has an excellent reliability record.

Go take a look at Consumer Reports and JD Power "long term" (vehicle dependability study) reliability results.

[cwerdna]

Originally Posted by DunesRunner08

Get the TDI...it will last longer, you can run bio-diesel, it pollutes less, and its just better looking

Your statement about the TDI polluting less is BS.

From all accounts, the 09 Jetta TDI gets a dirty Tier 2 Bin 5 EPA rating vs. cleaner the Prius' Tier 2 Bin 3 or much cleaner AT-PZEV rating. Also per Side-by-Side Comparison, it's estimated to emit 6.4 tons of CO2 per year vs 4.0 tons for the Prius.

As for last longer, fat chance, given VW's terrible reliability record.

[sdtundra]

Seein as you are also in San Diego, keep in mind that diesel is already at $5 a gallon+ here

By the way, what dealer's waiting lists are you on for both cars?

[patsparks]

Neither car will ever pay for itself unless you are using them as taxis or courier vehicles however the Prius will cost less to run.

The prius has a 12 volt battery like any other car which will likely do 4 or 5 years before needing replacement, the high voltage traction battery isn't going to cause any trouble, there has been 1 battery failure and that was caused by running the car without fuel until the computer shut down, then restarting the system and driving about 10 miles on battery until it died. This isn't what the battery is designed to do and if you never try to drive the car without fuel then there is no reason the battery wont last 300,000 miles or more.

There is a surprising amount of space in a Prius, when you think about it, it is almost a wagon.

If you do most of your driving in urban areas the economy difference is significant. That is before taking into account that diesel is more costly per litre.

The Prius is automatic, I don't know if the Jetta is. The transmission in the Prius is very simple and has about 1/4 of the moving parts of a regular auto transmission. Less parts than a manual transmission actually. It is a CVT transmission meaning smooth, but because it is electric it has no belts, clutches or hydraulic control circuits.

The maintenance costs of a Jetta are much higher than a Prius. Being a petrol engine the Prius hasn't got high priced diesel filters. The fuel injectors in a Prius are just like any other petrol car, the injectors in a Jetta will, if one fails cost a bomb to replace. Even the oil filter in a diesel will cost more.

Prius has a 92% owner satisfaction rating, that is higher than any other car, how does the Jetta rate among current owners? This is important as it is a pretty good indicator of how happy you will be getting into your car each day.

Prius is a Toyota, do you really think Toyota would risk their reputation making a bad car? Check the reliability rating of other VW products, how good is the Beetle?

Prius has had fantastic resale value, some people selling their Prius have got more for it than they paid or near what they paid new, check the resale price for used Volkswagens against new prices.

Prius is quieter. These new diesels are very quiet, for diesels.
Prius is cleaner. Prius has the lowest emissions of any car for sale today and by a long margin.

Quite frankly I don't care what you end up buying, the Prius dealer wont care either, he will sell the car. But what ever you get I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoy my Prius. By the way, I get 4.3L/100km (55mpg) across town and 5.2L/100km (45mpg) on the open road without trying too much.

[onlynark]

Originally Posted by DunesRunner08

Im telling you, get the TDi and make your own Bio-Diesel....it will be well worth it

perhaps thats your problem right there.

I would have to agree with pat here. VW reliability is pretty horrid, down there with mercedes. From what I've heard, you either get an awsome car and you love it, or you get a lemon. Test drive both and see which one u like.

[patsparks]

Originally Posted by DunesRunner08

based off #2 diesel yes it is dirtier...running on Bio-Diesel its one of the cleanest cars out there and get your studies correct...the new veeduds are far mor reliable

Where do you get your information about biodiesel? How much diesel is used to make a gallon of biodiesel from the seed through cultivation to the injector? What level of particulates will a diesel engine running biodiesel emit? Will biodiesel affect the VW warranty? What is the availability of biodiesel? What affect does biodiesel have on fuel costs? Will it lead to more land clearing? What progress does a diesel make toward a zero emission vehicle?

From ConsumerReports.org - Reliability trends released April 2008
Despite Toyota's problems, the automaker still ranks third overall in reliability, behind only Honda and Subaru, with 11 models in the best list. Honda has six with a smaller model lineup.

European makes account for 17 models on the Least reliable list. This includes six each from Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen/Audi.

Yep, it is just an overview but speaks volumes about the manufacturers and I haven't heard anything about a quality revolution in Europe.

[patsparks]

Sorry DunesRunner08 I thought you meant actual biodiesel, not chip fat. You need to convert the car to run chip fat so say goodbye to any manufacturer's warranty, then you need to mess about getting old chip fat and filtering it to remove all the bits of spud and all water. Store the chip fat, the containers and the filtering medium, dispose of waste residues and put up with the mess. After the fuel goes in the car you can't star.. why am I bothering, before you buy the diesel get a written guarantee from DunesRunner08 and perhaps ask him to put $5000 into escrow for when the biodiesel wrecks the engine. I know $5000 wont be enough to cover the damage but it will help. You know VW wont want to know.

Can anyone smell troll?

Why don't we get back on topic? DunesRunner08 start or find a chip fat thread. Or a troll thread.

[patsparks]

Oh I forgot, all trolls know what they are talking about.

Why not start a chip fat forum?

[patsparks]

Originally Posted by DunesRunner08

WTF is up with this troll shiz? Bio-diesel is made from waste veggie...you can do a waste veggie conversion and yes that does void warranty but biodiesel is taking the waste veggie and refining it.....the kist cost anywhere from $1500 and up to cook it up yourself...hey that $7k you spend to buy the hybrid could get you a really nice bio-diesel setup at your house and now you have full warranty still and you aren't polluting, and its cheap!!! you need to get educated sparks

I'd love to spend $25,000 on a new car, then a further $1,500 to throw the warranty in the bin.
Did you read the OPs post? The Jetta cost more than the Prius to buy.


Well start a chip fat forum and educate us.
I thought you were talking about actual biodiesel. SAFF Biodiesel.... Ask for it by name