ElectroMagnetic force field

[jeffn]

HAs anyone been able to find info on hybrid EMF fields? I've searched for a couple years and can't find a thing on it. I have an EMF specialist I'll ask about the fields generated by the voltage in a pure hybrid like the Prius and report back. Thanks

[jeffn]

Voila! note the last paragraph.

"Brian of Leucadia CA (3/24/01):
I am writing to you because of a serious problem I have with my new hybrid car, the Honda Insight. I have measured with a Trifield meter, and we have found that the electromagnetic field (EMF) impacting the driver and passenger are dangerously high. Everything we found has been backed up by professional measurement with much more sophisticated instrumentation.

The driver is receiving up to 135 milligauss (mG) at the hip, and up to 100 mG in the upper torso and head area. For comparison, my VW van measures between 1 and 2 mG. The technicians who measured the EMF advised me not to drive my Honda until this problem is fixed.

To put this into perspective, the Liburdy and Colleagues Study in 1993 found that just 12 mG stimulates the growth of estrogen-sensitive breast cancer cells. Epidemiological studies have found an increased risk of breast cancer among both men and women exposed to high electromagnetic fields at work. A study by the Natinoal Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS) called "assessment of health effects from exposure to power line frequency electric and magnetic fields" confirms the dangers of high EMF.

In addition, epidemiological studies worldwide have found that exposure above 2-3 mG in children greatly increases their chances of contracting leukemia. This is a statistically valid number. There have been numerous other studies on this problem, many of them appearing in either the American Journal of Epidemiology or the International Journal of Epidemiology within the last ten years.

Honda
• Airbags
• Brakes
• Bumpers
• Fires
• Honda Care
• Ignition switch
• Odyssey doors
• Paint
• Radiator
• Transmission
• Windshield
• The Insight
---
• Feds Probe Honda Ignition Problems

The Institute for Bau-biology and Ecology has set standards for EMF, and the Insight's readings are up to 100 times higher than the minimum reading considered "strong" in their tables.

I have always liked Hondas, and Honda's commitment to being first in environmental thinking among the automakers here and abroad. Our family has had four of their cars: a Honda 600 back in the '70s, an Accord, a Civic, and now the Insight. I feel that Honda had always tried to be environmentally concious, but they dropped the ball in a big way on this vehicle. I know that they are aware of EMF, since they must consider EMF compatibility just to insure that automobile systems do not electrically interfere with one another. But it is clear that they are not considering the effects of EMF on the driver and passengers.

The kicker for me is a line in the Honda Insight Service Advisor and Parts Counterperson Guide, and I quote: "Anyone with a heart pacemaker, ICD, or other medical implant that can be affected by strong magnetic fields should stay away from the rotor." The driver is not far from that rotor, and that is truly frightening.

One person I talked to offered me a possible aftermarket solution with involves layering mu-metal, an iron/nickel shielding material on the floor and rear deck to minimize the EMF in my Insight. But they don't know how much the EMF will be minimized, if it will be safe to drive, or if I should gamble thousands of dollars to find out. We feel that the EMF problem could have been handled during production of the car by using source identification, field cancellation, and shielding. As it is now, the car sits in my garage awaiting a solution. I faxed Honda my concerns in December, and they have not responded.

A follow-up from Brian (5/17/04):

I sold the Honda Insight back to the dealer six months after purchase, at a loss of about $7,000. Honda finally did respond, and told me the EMF was "within the curve" of some other automobiles (so vague, and without any example, that it was basically a non-reply), and that the car was fine. I asked if they would test my car at their labs in southern California, and they said no. I now make it a habit of talking to owners of Honda Insights whenever I can, and at least one owner sold the car within a few weeks.

In the last year, I've had inquiries from officials in positions to order government vehicles. I forwarded all my info to them, and the results are still pending.

After I sold the Insight, I almost bought a used Honda minivan. Just before purchase, I checked the EMF, and although the driver seat was fine, the front passenger seat (where the kids sit in this soccer-mom vehicle) had very high EMF. I still think that Honda is a pace-setter in MPG and safety, but they have not addressed the EMF problem. My feeling on this is that EMF will eventually rival tobacco and asbestos as health issues.

Incidentally, the Prius I measured was fine in the front seats, but the left rear seat had similar readings to the Insight. "

[efusco]

If you search here and on PriusOnline you'll find some information. There were some annecdotal reports that EMF were high in the rear seat, but others have said that's BS. There is significiant sheilding to keep exposure within regulatory standards throughout the passenger compartment.

[DanMan32]

I wonder how much EMF a TV, Monitor, digital and analog clocks, computers and high tension powerlines put out? I bet they put out as much if not more EMF than a hybrid.

Although it may be a good idea to consider and possibly work to adjust for this concern, I don't think it warrants selling the darn things. Power transmission lines and cellphones would be far more of a concern, as well as fuel burning emissions that hybrids work to minimize.

[GreenSteve]

The mere fact that magnetic fields are present does not establish the potential for harm to the types of water based tissues found in carbon-based life forms.

The likelihood of harm from exposure to an EMF field depends largely on the frequency range produced by the energy source. For example, the energy emitted by the transmitting tower of an AM radio station using a 5,000 watt transmitter is much less likely to heat and harm tissue than the output of a 700 watt microwave oven - given an equivalent distance.

Any stray RF or other EMF energy emitted coincidentally by an elecric motor large enough to move an automobile is going to be at a relatively low primary frequency, on the order of 4 or 5 KHz or lower.

You need to get up at least into the range of 50MHz or higher, and produce a great deal more power than casual stray emissions from an electric motor, before a reason for concern would exist.

You are far more likely to be harmed by exposure to the radiation produced by a home computer (still virtually zero percent risk) than by a big electric motor on the other side of a metal firewall.

To support my argument I offer the lack of Prius owner corpses.

[richard schumacher]

He didn't want to "waste" any money adding shielding to his car, but he was so concerned that he instead took a $7,000 loss in selling it? Sheesh. I smell a troll, or maybe a nutcase.

For much background see http://www.niehs.nih.gov/emfrapid/html/Q&A...-Workplace.html

After more 20 years of looking there is no clear connection between EMF and disease. One is far more likely to be harmed by crashing one's car than by exposure to the car's EMF. Anyone worried about these intensities and frequencies of EMF should not use a computer or a cell phone, or live in a house with electrical wiring. Or smoke. Or live in Denver. Or have a body mass index greater than 25.

[rflagg]

111000101010101011011101000Drive with your tinfoil helmet on at all times! This message is encrypted so they can't decode it!!!!1010000111101011001

"Do you want to know the dark secrets of the MLB, or do you want to see Mac hit some homers?"

-m.

[jeffn]

A bit more info from the UK:

http://www.nrpb.org/faq/emf/

Yes, trolling for information/enlightenment. :idea:

[GreenSteve]

Let me try again, JeffN, to enlighten you on this subject.

There is absolutely positively no potential for any harm of any kind as a result of exposure to the kinds of EMF produced by any automobile, Hybrid or otherwise.

It won't hurt you because it can't hurt you.

Since it can't hurt you, you might be well advised not to worry about it.

There are things that can hurt you. EMF radiated by cars is not one of the things that can hurt you.

Now go worry on somebody else's shoulder.

[Frank Hudon]

how about the hundreds of thousand of welders or electric forklift, reach truck, order pickers, that have truly high power electric motors, where the operator sits or stands on them. If it was such a big concern the Workers Compensation Boards would be on their case by now because of potential liability.