Check engine light!

[prberg]

Well I guess there is a Chapter 2 to this story...

So I had the check engine light turn on last week... had the dealer check it out, and they re-programmed the ECU. Everything is great.

Well over the weekend I went driving with my friend out in the desert. We were crusing down a flat streach and I pushed the car up to 105MPG (I know. .. not a good idea). I quickly resumed my normal speed (around 70) and about 45 seconds later I had lights flash at me again. This time I got: The Red '!' (inside the triangle), the yellow '!' (inside the circle), and on the MFD it said 'Problem' (and had the symbol of the car with the '!' over it). This time it wasn't just the lights, I started to notice that I was losing power (I couldn't keep the car going 50). So I pulled over to check it out. Turned off the car, and turned it back on and the lights were still there. Let the car sit for 10 mins. and then tried again. Lights were still on (actually I think the yellow '!' turned off at this point) but this time the car performed normally. So at this point (I was far from civilization) I started to drive home. Took it very slow at first but the car was driving normally (other than the lights still on). Got home (It was a sat. night, so no dealers were open) and the next day I drove the car and all the lights were gone.

So I'm wondering if this problem might be realted to my first incident when the lights flashed at me, or if I pushed the car too hard and maybe I damaged something.. or maybe it was just asking me to give it a break? I also noticed that the oil level was too high (quarter inch over the top mark) so I drained some out when I pulled the car over to the side of the road. not sure if this could have anything to do with it. Should I take it in to the dealer again to 'check the codes'? Why can't the car be more specific... when it says 'problem' it's not very helpful.

A side question.. does this car have an electroic speed limiter on it? What is the max speed? What speed is too fast for the car? I know the tires have their own speed rating.. but I wonder what car itself can handle without damage. (just for short periods... not day to day driving)

Would love to hear your input... Thank.

-Peter B

[efusco]

Well, you shouldn't have gotten the CEL light again...even going 105...which is (I believe) the top speed a Prius can go. Yes, it is regulated to prevent damage to the hybrid system (MG1 speed peaks??).

I think you need to take it back, I don't think sharing the 105mp thing is necessary, just tell them you were going 70 when it happened.

[DanMan32]

The yellow circle with the ! in it is related to brakes. The car with an ! on the MFD indicates a problem with the hybrid system. Sounds like a power glitch! DTCs should reveal that.

Loose battery cable?

[rick57]

Depending on the Trouble Codes stored, I am sure the tech will see Vehicle Speed in the Data List that was Freeze Framed when the code set. The ECU takes a Snap-Shot of any relevant info pertaining to the system that caused the Trouble Code.I wouldn't mention it when you take it in tho. Just tell them the Lights came on while driving,

[prberg]

Well I'm going to bring it in tomorrow... want to be sure these lights were not a sign of somthing serious (if it was serious the lights would still be on right?). Toyota emailed me back and said the cost (of the diagnosis) might or might not be covered by the warranty. That sucks. In what case would diagnosis of trouble lights not be covered by the warranty? I'm only at 21,000 miles. Unless they can prove I abused the vehicle somehow (not doing maintenance or something?) I don't see why this wouldn't be covered under warranty. I know driving fast it not good for the car but that doesn't invalidate the warranty does it?

thanks,
Peter B

[rick57]

I would think that for the most part anytime the "Check Engine" light comes on it leads to something that would be a warranty repair. The light will come on for any emission/efi related trouble. If it is for an Evap leak, which could be a loose gas cap and they might try to charge for that. We normally don't and if we find that is the problem,the customer is educated as to just make sure the cap is tightened fully the next time it is refilled.

[prberg]

Thanks for the info Rick, that's what I thought too. Well I got the car back again and they said it was a similar thing. A 'Computer Glitch'. The code this time: P2128 (Throttle Pedal Position Sensor/Switch 'E' Ciruit High Input). They didn't mention my high speed but they asked what was happening when it went off. I just said I was doing some hard driving. So is this error code a sign that maybe the sensors are a little too sensitive? Or maybe I shouldn't drive too fast next time! I wonder if V8Cobrakid ever got any errors (I thought he has done some high speed driving beore).
My service manager said that they contacted Toyota Corporate and opened a ticket on this issue so they can track if I get any further codes. I guess this is expeced with a new car. When I go buy Windows 1.0 it is expected to have to upgrade to 1.1 or 2.0 at some point as they improve the software.
A side note.. they also did the 20k service on the car even though I didnt' request it. So when they asked me to pay for that I reminded the service manager that I never requested that service and my car was totatly up to date on all service. He discussed something with his supervisor and 5 mins later I had my car... no charge.

Well thanks again.. Will update if I get any further errors.

-Peter B

[prberg]

After looking at my paperwork closer.. I see when they did the service that I didn't ask them to do... they used 10W30. Shouldn't they know what oil the car needs more than me?? Doesn't it say right on the cap... 5W30?? They probably overfilled it too.. I better go out and check right now. Is it really that hard? I mean really.

anyways... have a good weekend.

-Peter B

[jayman]

Originally Posted by prberg\";p=\"77775)</div>[quote

they used 10W30.  Shouldn't they know what oil the car needs more than me??  Doesn't it say right on the cap... 5W30?? [/b]

Peter:

Well, I sure wouldn't use a 10W-30 up here at -40. However, your climate is entirely different and if the dealer is filling with 10W-30 there has to be a good reason.

It appears the Prius in Europe are being filled with a 10W-40 and Toyota of Australia usually fills with a 20W-50. So given your temps, since the dealer documented it, don't worry about it. BP in Europe recommends their 0W-40 in the Prius, you can verify this yourself:

http://www.bplubricants.co.uk

Click on "Recommendations," "Retail," "Cars," "Toyota," and "Prius (Hybrid car)." BP has alternative viscosity recommendations - depending on expected ambient temperatures - up to 20W-50.

You *may* be sacrificing some MPG though. A lot of folks with small fuel efficient cars have reported MPG gains of 4-8% by running Mobil 1 0W-30. That oil should be available at your local Pep Boys or Autozone.

However, if you ask your local dealer about running a 0W-30 all year round, where you live, they may have a cow. Even though it's an xW-30.

Some folks with Honda Civic's that specify a 5W-20 have tried Mobil 1 0W-20 and reported similar 4-8% fuel economy gains. It's still unclear if the "lighter" viscosity has any long-term reliability or engine life issues.

A 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30, and a straight SAE 30 all have similar viscosity characteristics at the test running temp of 100 C. So one would think that in a consistent and warm climate like yours, it really shouldn't matter.

Mobil 1 oils are all somewhat "thinner" at running temps than conventional oils. Eg: SAE/API specs for a xW-30 oil specify around 9.5-13 cSt] 100C, so there is a *large* range here. Most of the Mobil 1 xW-30 oils test at around 10 cSt.

Another thing to consider is that Ford has specified a 5W-20 for most of their vehicles - including their V-10 powered motorhomes - for at least 6 years now. How often do their motors blow up running a 5W-20?

One thing I would do is call the toll-free Toyota Assistance number and ask Toyota if it's acceptable for the dealer to use a viscosity different from that stated on the filler cap. Since the dealer has documented using a 10W-30 you appear to have CYA and should be off the hook if anything *does* happen.

[prberg]

Totota's response was a bit lame....

me: I had 2 questions about my Prius. I recently took my car into Keyes Toyota and they changed my oil. I didn't notice it right away but on my paperwork it says they used '10W-30' oil. I know the user manual says to use '5W-30'. Is this a big problem? why did they do this? Will this harm my engine or effect my gas milage? Will it effect my car's warranty?


Toyota:
Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

We apologize for any confusion regarding the recommended oil selection. The Owner's Manual cites the recommended engine oil selection under what is assumed to be a standard, or typical set of driving conditions.

Your local Service Manager has both the business right (since dealerships are independently owned service facilities), and the real-world experience, to offer his own input and advice, often seen as the dealership's general service recommendations. Additionally, a local Service Manager has the ability to fine tune service recommendations for particular environments, and perhaps even specific, return customers.


They didn't say anything about warranty or fuel economy.

-Peter B