Remote Starter by Viper model 5900 for 2007 Prius

elite · 03-15-2007, 10:42 PM

Hey, i was just wondering if anyone has this installed, i was told it would cost 800 to install here in Brooklyn NY, but i also found a place for 550 to install but all he needs is a scematic of how to do it, if anyone has any ideas of how it needs to be installed please post pics, or info. Thanks

nyconrad · 03-18-2007, 08:37 AM

Welcome to Priuschat!
How would this work with SKS? The remote start we had installed in my daughters car required us to bury a key under the dash so it would recognize that there was a key nearby in order to remote start the car.

If you haven't as yet, check out our Long Island Prius Owners Group website, you are welcome to come to one of our meetings.

elite · 03-18-2007, 01:18 PM

yes this is the problem that i am having at the moment, y esturday i installed the remote start and its working great, ACCEPT the fact that if there is a key in the car, anyone can drive it away just by braking a window....or just pressing the button on the door handles since the smartkey is under the dash board, than the doors open with the press of a button, so my question would be, how would i diactivate the smartkey system?

RobH · 03-18-2007, 09:10 PM

I've been pondering how to connect a remote start to my Prius for some time. The problem is that all of the units I've looked at are designed for conventional cars.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sequence of events on with a conventional remote start is:

Start request initiated from remote.
Pulse security disarm.
Enable key bypass
Enable ignition
Enable starter
When tachometer signal indicates engine running, disable starter.
If engine doesn't start within several seconds, disable starter, disable ignition, wait a few seconds, and retry the start (up to 3 times).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sequence of events required for a remote start on the Prius is:

Start request initiated from remote.
Pulse security disarm (I'm guessing here - I haven't tried it yet).
Apply brake signal (required to get to Ready mode)
Delay a short time (1/10 second?)
Pulse Power button pressed signal (2 circuits, although either one works alone).
Watch 12 volt power jumping to about 13.5 volts. Most remote start devices have a "voltage sense" method of detecting engine start, and this should work with the Prius. The inverter that charges the 12 volt battery kicks in with Ready mode, providing the same voltage change as an alternator does with a conventional car. If the remote start device does not have "voltage sense", then you have to provide a tachometer type signal that indicates a successful start. If you don't indicate a successful start to the remote start device, then it will disable the ignition and retry the start process.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In order to stop a conventional car, the ignition circuit is disconnected.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In order to stop the Prius, the Power button is momentarily pressed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is obviously a mismatch between the control signals that a conventional remote start device provides, and the control signals that the Prius requires. I've designed a control board that uses 6 relays to handle the conversion. It's untested, so I'll just provide the logic that I think will work. Note particularly that the remote start device ignition signal is treated as logic only - it is NOT connected to the car ignition circuit.

Case 1: Remote start raises Start signal
<blockquote>Enable key bypass
Delay 1/10 second
Enable Power button signal</blockquote>
Case 2: Remote start raises ignition signal
<blockquote>If the car ignition is already on, cancel the remote start</blockquote>
Case 3: Car ignition turns on
<blockquote>Disable Power button signal
Disable key bypass
Hold "car ignition on" status</blockquote>
Case 4: Remote start ignition signal drops
<blockquote>Enable Power button signal for 1/10 second</blockquote>
Well, that's what I remember about the circuit just now. I'm still fiddling with it so reality will probably require some changes. It is extremely important that the remote start device cannot interfere with the car as it's traveling down the road. I don't want a stray radio signal, or even a press of the remote killing the ignition while the car is in motion.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, about the key bypass. Most modern remote start installations use a transponder bypass device that substitutes for having a key in the ignition. This is either an actual key with some electronics to relay the transponder signals to the ignition switch, or an electronic box that acts like the transponder in a key. The Prius has a transponder in the keyfob that is sensed when you put it in the keyslot. I attempted to install a KEY-OVERRIDE-SL2 device which is supposed to mimic an actual key. Doesn't work. I got it programmed, but the Prius doesn't believe that it is a proper key. I next attempted to use a real keyfob (battery removed) in a universal bypass box. Didn't work, although in theory it should if there is adequate signal transfer to the keyslot.

The only way viable way I can see to satisfy the requirement for a key is to use a real keyfob. The keyfob battery must be replaced with power supplied from the remote start system. Power to the keyfob must be applied during the start sequence, and could be left on while the car is in use. The keyfob power must be disabled when the car is not running. Note the requirement of 3 volts for the keyfob. If you just switch the existing battery, then you're going to have to replace the battery every few years (just tear apart the dash...).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$800 to install a remote start on the Prius is not out of line. There is a lot of conversion logic required to use existing remote start devices, plus you have to donate a real SKS keyfob. I checked several places about how much it would cost to have a unit installed. Every answer was a refusal to even bid.

elite · 03-19-2007, 12:11 AM

the thing is that the remote start works perfectly fine, thats what im trying to tell you, BUT there is a little thing thats messed up...for example...i start the car from home, during the time for me to get from home to the parking lot might be 20 mins for example you know, during that time, anyone can come up to the car, press the softkey botton on the door handle and open the car and drive away, the alarm goes off, but all they have to do is press the secrurity key button thats hidden in the spot that i have, and they will diactivate the alarm fast, i still get paged but by the time i get to the parkinglot, they'll probably drive away you know. I mean they can still do that by breaking a window to steal a car, but i rather have them do that than just come up to the car and press a button you know, so my question being is....how do i disable/deactivate the softkeys on the door handles and trunk/hatch, because there has to be either a fuse or a wire to diactiave it, i just want to know how you know....when i press the KEY button under my steering wheel, all it does is the remote start starts the car but it doesnt go into ready mode and the car power button doesnt work or anyting...so basically i'd have to unpress the button in order for it to start working fine you know....but that defeats the whole purpose of remote start because thats a hastle compared to just having it normally you know...im using a Viper 5900 SST remote starter if that helps for people to help me out maybe :-/

PLEASE HELLPPP

(((

RobH · 03-20-2007, 12:41 AM

It sounds like you're way ahead of me in getting a remote start. But your experience underscores the fact that the Prius is quite different from a conventional car. In addition to the logic that I described above, the remote start system should shut down when a door is opened, or at least when the brake is pressed. Another lockout technique would be to disable the gear selector when in remote start mode.

The keyfob needs to be disabled most of the time. It is only needed during the start sequence. The way to disable the keyfob is to remove the battery. Then apply 3 volts power to the battery connections during the start sequence, but not the rest of the time.

I don't understand why the car can be entered while the engine is running. When I leave the car on (for the air conditioning), the only way I can lock the door is with the mechanical key. When I return, the mechanical key is the only way to unlock the door. The keyfob system is disabled when the power is enabled with the Power button. Any variation from this behavior is due to the installer changing the system.

03-18-2007, 09:10 PM	#4
RobH Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sunnyvale, California Posts: 305 My Car: 2006 Prius Package: #8 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	I've been pondering how to connect a remote start to my Prius for some time. The problem is that all of the units I've looked at are designed for conventional cars. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The sequence of events on with a conventional remote start is: Start request initiated from remote. Pulse security disarm. Enable key bypass Enable ignition Enable starter When tachometer signal indicates engine running, disable starter. If engine doesn't start within several seconds, disable starter, disable ignition, wait a few seconds, and retry the start (up to 3 times). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The sequence of events required for a remote start on the Prius is: Start request initiated from remote. Pulse security disarm (I'm guessing here - I haven't tried it yet). Apply brake signal (required to get to Ready mode) Delay a short time (1/10 second?) Pulse Power button pressed signal (2 circuits, although either one works alone). Watch 12 volt power jumping to about 13.5 volts. Most remote start devices have a "voltage sense" method of detecting engine start, and this should work with the Prius. The inverter that charges the 12 volt battery kicks in with Ready mode, providing the same voltage change as an alternator does with a conventional car. If the remote start device does not have "voltage sense", then you have to provide a tachometer type signal that indicates a successful start. If you don't indicate a successful start to the remote start device, then it will disable the ignition and retry the start process. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ In order to stop a conventional car, the ignition circuit is disconnected. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ In order to stop the Prius, the Power button is momentarily pressed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ There is obviously a mismatch between the control signals that a conventional remote start device provides, and the control signals that the Prius requires. I've designed a control board that uses 6 relays to handle the conversion. It's untested, so I'll just provide the logic that I think will work. Note particularly that the remote start device ignition signal is treated as logic only - it is NOT connected to the car ignition circuit. Case 1: Remote start raises Start signal <blockquote>Enable key bypass Delay 1/10 second Enable Power button signal</blockquote> Case 2: Remote start raises ignition signal <blockquote>If the car ignition is already on, cancel the remote start</blockquote> Case 3: Car ignition turns on <blockquote>Disable Power button signal Disable key bypass Hold "car ignition on" status</blockquote> Case 4: Remote start ignition signal drops <blockquote>Enable Power button signal for 1/10 second</blockquote> Well, that's what I remember about the circuit just now. I'm still fiddling with it so reality will probably require some changes. It is extremely important that the remote start device cannot interfere with the car as it's traveling down the road. I don't want a stray radio signal, or even a press of the remote killing the ignition while the car is in motion. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now, about the key bypass. Most modern remote start installations use a transponder bypass device that substitutes for having a key in the ignition. This is either an actual key with some electronics to relay the transponder signals to the ignition switch, or an electronic box that acts like the transponder in a key. The Prius has a transponder in the keyfob that is sensed when you put it in the keyslot. I attempted to install a KEY-OVERRIDE-SL2 device which is supposed to mimic an actual key. Doesn't work. I got it programmed, but the Prius doesn't believe that it is a proper key. I next attempted to use a real keyfob (battery removed) in a universal bypass box. Didn't work, although in theory it should if there is adequate signal transfer to the keyslot. The only way viable way I can see to satisfy the requirement for a key is to use a real keyfob. The keyfob battery must be replaced with power supplied from the remote start system. Power to the keyfob must be applied during the start sequence, and could be left on while the car is in use. The keyfob power must be disabled when the car is not running. Note the requirement of 3 volts for the keyfob. If you just switch the existing battery, then you're going to have to replace the battery every few years (just tear apart the dash...). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $800 to install a remote start on the Prius is not out of line. There is a lot of conversion logic required to use existing remote start devices, plus you have to donate a real SKS keyfob. I checked several places about how much it would cost to have a unit installed. Every answer was a refusal to even bid.

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03-15-2007, 10:42 PM	#1
elite Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 6 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Hey, i was just wondering if anyone has this installed, i was told it would cost 800 to install here in Brooklyn NY, but i also found a place for 550 to install but all he needs is a scematic of how to do it, if anyone has any ideas of how it needs to be installed please post pics, or info. Thanks

03-18-2007, 08:37 AM	#2
nyconrad Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 220 My Car: 2006 Prius Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Welcome to Priuschat! How would this work with SKS? The remote start we had installed in my daughters car required us to bury a key under the dash so it would recognize that there was a key nearby in order to remote start the car. If you haven't as yet, check out our Long Island Prius Owners Group website, you are welcome to come to one of our meetings.

03-18-2007, 01:18 PM	#3
elite Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 6 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	yes this is the problem that i am having at the moment, y esturday i installed the remote start and its working great, ACCEPT the fact that if there is a key in the car, anyone can drive it away just by braking a window....or just pressing the button on the door handles since the smartkey is under the dash board, than the doors open with the press of a button, so my question would be, how would i diactivate the smartkey system?

03-19-2007, 12:11 AM	#5
elite Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 6 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	the thing is that the remote start works perfectly fine, thats what im trying to tell you, BUT there is a little thing thats messed up...for example...i start the car from home, during the time for me to get from home to the parking lot might be 20 mins for example you know, during that time, anyone can come up to the car, press the softkey botton on the door handle and open the car and drive away, the alarm goes off, but all they have to do is press the secrurity key button thats hidden in the spot that i have, and they will diactivate the alarm fast, i still get paged but by the time i get to the parkinglot, they'll probably drive away you know. I mean they can still do that by breaking a window to steal a car, but i rather have them do that than just come up to the car and press a button you know, so my question being is....how do i disable/deactivate the softkeys on the door handles and trunk/hatch, because there has to be either a fuse or a wire to diactiave it, i just want to know how you know....when i press the KEY button under my steering wheel, all it does is the remote start starts the car but it doesnt go into ready mode and the car power button doesnt work or anyting...so basically i'd have to unpress the button in order for it to start working fine you know....but that defeats the whole purpose of remote start because thats a hastle compared to just having it normally you know...im using a Viper 5900 SST remote starter if that helps for people to help me out maybe :-/ PLEASE HELLPPP (((

03-20-2007, 12:41 AM	#6
RobH Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sunnyvale, California Posts: 305 My Car: 2006 Prius Package: #8 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	It sounds like you're way ahead of me in getting a remote start. But your experience underscores the fact that the Prius is quite different from a conventional car. In addition to the logic that I described above, the remote start system should shut down when a door is opened, or at least when the brake is pressed. Another lockout technique would be to disable the gear selector when in remote start mode. The keyfob needs to be disabled most of the time. It is only needed during the start sequence. The way to disable the keyfob is to remove the battery. Then apply 3 volts power to the battery connections during the start sequence, but not the rest of the time. I don't understand why the car can be entered while the engine is running. When I leave the car on (for the air conditioning), the only way I can lock the door is with the mechanical key. When I return, the mechanical key is the only way to unlock the door. The keyfob system is disabled when the power is enabled with the Power button. Any variation from this behavior is due to the installer changing the system.