how would you respond to this ?

[pola]

I have irritated one man here, (I can't control that) since I have not bought a Prius yet. Thanks for your time. I will try not to post as much until i make up my mind.

Aside from the financial considerations below as outlined by a friend, what are the clean air benefits ?

Non hybrid Civic VS Prius:

If your car fails in Chapparal Point, NM, what are the chances that Henry at the local garage can manage a repair of your Prius?

I have done a deep fuel cost analysis and made it simple below.

In Parenthesis, you will find mileage info in this order: (Consumer Reports determined mpg: cty/hwy/overall/150mi trip). Using Consumer Reports 'overall' mileage (the third number in the parenthesis below) if you drive 15,000 miles per year, you will use the following amounts of gas:

Prius: 340.9 gallons (CR: 35/50/44/48 mpg)

Civic Hybrid: 405.4 gallons (CR: 26/47/37/45 mpg)

Civic EX MT: 483.9 gallons (CR: 22/40/31/37 mpg)

Civic EX: 535.7 gallons (CR: 18/43/28/34 mpg)

Fit: 468.8 gallons (CR: 22/43/32/38 mpg)

To derive the savings of the Prius (versus the other cars), use the following information. The table below shows how many gallons MORE THAN THE PRIUS each of the other four cars use in a year:

Civic Hybrid: you USE 65 more gallons per year than the Prius

Civic EX MT: you USE 143 more gallons per year than the Prius

Civic EX: " " 196 " gallons per year " " "

Fit: " " 128 " gallons per year " " "

Below is the cost per year to drive each of the cars instead of a Prius, figured for several gas prices:

Civic Hybrid: $3 gas = $195. $4 gas = $260. $5 gas = $325. $6 gas = $390. $10 gas = $650.

Civic EX MT: $3 gas = $429. $4 gas = $572. $5 gas = $715. $6 gas = $868. $10 gas = $1,430.

Civic EX: $3 gas = $588. $4 gas = $784. $5 gas = $980. $6 gas = $1,176. $10 gas = $1,960.

Fit: $3 gas = $384. $4 gas = $512. $5 gas = $640. $6 gas = $768. $10 gas = $1,280.

===========================================

Finally, below is the accumulated fuel cost (above what it would have cost you to drive a Prius) if you drive the car for three years:

With gas at $6 per gallon starting today:

Civic Hybrid: $1,170

Civic EX MT: $2,604

Civic EX: $3,528

Fit: $2,304

===========================================

So, it is worth noting that even if gas jumped up to six dollars per gallon tomorrow and stayed there, during the next three years, the Prius would only save you $3,528 over the Civic EX in fuel costs. Even over four years, it would only save you $4,704 over the Civic EX. And if you drive less than 15,000 per year, the Prius will save you even less than the above amounts.

Given that the Honda Civic EX is not going to cost you more than the Prius, even if you own it for four years, why not get the one with the better visibility, 1" higher ground clearance, the easier to fix engine (if stranded) and the nicer ride? If you study the crash tests, you will see that the Prius is one grade better in Driver Side Impact test than the Civic, but worse in all of the other four crash tests than the Civic did.




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See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[liverbomb88]

We have both, and they are two totally different cars. Doing a financial comparison between apples and oranges, especially given the financial intangibles such as overall carbon use and elimination, seems like a somewhat futile act. I would recommend test driving both, look over the creature comforts, evaluate the availability of dealerships/service where you are, and then make a decision on which car appeals to you.

For me, I love my civic because I get to drive a stick shift that saves fuel and is ULEV. My wife loves her Prius because it's super fuel efficient and emissions friendly. I have a moonroof, she has leather and hids. Different cars, different tastes.

[ozyran]

I'd say that this post belongs in the "Other Cars" forum off the bat, and then I'd say that MANY of us have managed better than what CR obtained in their testing. My wife and I recently took our 2002 Prius to Northeast Vermont from Southeast Connecticut. On the way there we managed 44 miles per gallon, while we were in Vermont we managed 54 mpg, and on the return trip we managed 48 miles per gallon.

If you really want to pick it apart, in my 1999 Dodge Neon R/T (2.0L DOHC, 5-spd trans) with an MSD coil, MSD Super Conductor wires, Bosch Platinum +4 plugs, an Iceman cold air intake, Pacesetter header, high-flow cat, and Magnaflow exhaust system, I averaged about 280-300 miles on about 8.5 gallons of gas in city driving; on the highway I'd get about 330-340 miles for those same 8.5 gallons. That's not too far from some of those numbers that CR came up with for their tests.

What it all boils down to is personal preference. If you want a conventional car, go get a conventional car. No skin off my back, but I think you're missing out on the technological revolution that the hybrid automobile really is.

[priussoris]

Sounds like your mind is made up enjoy a non hybrid vehicle but I think your numbers on fuel useage per year are wrong.
and savings are more with the prius even if gas goes down which it wont unless we go to war with everyone and WIN odds are good that it wont it will still cost less if gas goes down but to each his own

good luck in your choice

[qbee42]

Feel free to post all you like. Once in a while you will set someone off, but don't let that stop you.

As for your questions, the mileage figures you posted are on the low side for real Prius drivers. I get better than those figures in cold weather or at highway speeds, and much better with normal driving in the summer. I usually average 55 mpg in the summer. You will find that true for many Prius drivers.

That said, if you are thinking about a Prius solely on fuel savings, I think you will be disappointed. As another poster said previously, comparing a Civic to a Prius is an apples to oranges comparison. I owned a couple of Honda Accords before the Prius, so I have some perspective. Honda makes great cars; Toyota makes great cars. A lot of it is subjective. I like the Prius better than any of the Hondas I have owned, and I like it a lot better than the current crop of Civics. To me, the Civics seem loud and I don't like the way they drive. I especially don't like the interior of the new Civics. Those are subjective factors. As an engineer, if find Toyota's HSD far ahead of anything else. They have done a fantastic job rethinking the whole transmission issue, and traded mechanical complexity for computer software. When properly executed, which it is in this case, I'll take that trade any day.

For me, I'd buy the Prius even if the mileage figures were dead even.

My two cents (more of a nickle),
Tom

[dmckinstry]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pola @ May 10 2007, 07:11 AM) [snapback]439036[/snapback]</div>

I have irritated one man here, (I can't control that) since I have not bought a Prius yet. Thanks for your time. I will try not to post as much until i make up my mind.

Aside from the financial considerations below as outlined by a friend, what are the clean air benefits ?
[/b]

I suspect most of us who own the Prius do so for the car. We don't own it just because of the cost or potential savings. To me the Prius is practically a luxury car that has more room than most sedans and a lot of small station wagons. In addition it has technology that far exceeds all but that in expensive luxury cars (at least that was true when I bought my Prius). Of course, it also gets better mileage and has lower emissions than almost any car, except of course for an electric.

Dave M.

[Tyrin]

Let's take a more realistic figure of $1500 gas savings over 3 years (since I doubt we'll see $6 gas right away, but who knows?)

Are you saying the Civics are $1500 cheaper than a Prius? If they are the same base price (I'm pretty sure it's close), then the gas savings stays right in my pocket. $500 per year is nothing to sneeze at, at least for me.

Now, here's what the Prius has that the Civic doesn't:

Hatchback = more space for stuff. LOTS more space, actually. There are many people on here who have fit large orders from Lowes or Home Depot into the Prius.

Hybrid style. My car stands out on the road, and is noticeable (and I like the look). The Civic looks like every other sedan on the road.

The features you chose to focus on (ground clearance, better ride [totally subjective BTW], visibility) are non-issues for me, and many other drivers. Why would I NOT pay less for gas, get a bigger car, and one that I like the look of?

[chinalfr2]

Driving a SUV, suck all your gas money.
Driving a civic non-hybrid, ease up your gas money.
Driving a Prius hybrid, pay a premium and hurt your saving.
Overtime, outputing less polute gas and save the earth, PRICELESS.

[Devil's Advocate]

I tell people if money is the real concern and all you want is a commuter, then the civic is the car to get. However if you need a larger car then you have to get the prius. The Prius is more inn line with an Accord in size and utillity, it is significantly larger in useful space than the civic.

I haven't seen a carbon foot print analysis between the Prius and the Civic, but the Civic isn't bad.

[DaveinOlyWA]

i know a mechanic, he recently went from working on Fords to being a diesel mechanic working on heavy equipment for a sand and gravel pit.

he says that todays new cars are so complicated, that ALL can be difficult to repair depending on the type of breakdown and that a Prius or any other hybrid adds only a very small amount of complexity to the mix.

and sure, you can use CR gas mileage reports if you like, but i choose to take MY 3 years of direct experience AND money to tell you that if you wanted to save more money on gas, its probably gonna be easier to do it in a Prius than any other vehicle.

plus, if you dont want a Prius, dont buy one. they are not for everyone. so i guess i have to wonder why you are here. i think you do want one, but needs someone to shoot down your nagging doubts. now whether that can be done is up to you.