Costs of a PHEV system.

[dmckinstry]

Originally Posted by Cheap!

Dmckinstry,
Yes I have been using Clean Domestic Wind Energy and I would like to get PVs on the roof of my home. I rebuilt my PHEV kit to fit completely under the decking in the trunk, and there is no cutting at all to the fabric trim pieces in the trunk so you can't even tell the PHEV pack and charger are there. I priced it at $6,000 installed complete with heavy duty springs, but I have not had many takers because I insist on telling everyone that it costs more to operate a PHEV then it does just to operate the Prius as is. I still had a few takers though.

The charger puts out a lot of heat so I think i would recommend that someone who can, just keep their spare and leave the charger at home so it is always out side of the car and the pack stays cooler. That won't work for everyone so fans kick on when you plug-in the car.

Now if we could just get the price of energy storage down!

I'll hold off on the PVs until next year.

I originally thought I'd to the PHEV conversion myself. Unfortunately, my wife and I are down to one car now. At the rate I do things, a conversion would leave me without a car for months.

I decided to go with Hymotion, even though it would be more expensive and Hymotion's L5 doesn't incorporate regenerative braking. After a trip to the Denver area and back by way of Reno and Sacramento, I noted that the NiMH traction battery didn't get that overfilled, even after a trip down the eastern side of the continental divide. So, regenerative braking through the L5 might not make that much difference anyway.
OTOH, discharging and recharging on the lithium ion should have been more efficient, so I still wish they had designed in regenerative braking.

Oh well.

Dave M.

[Cheap!]

Originally Posted by Wildkow

Since the BMS is a high dollar piece of equipment is there a BMS/Charger system out there that can do PbA, NiMH, and Li-Ion. That way I can build my system with the cheaper PbA's and wait for better batteries to come out to replace them later?

Originally Posted by Wildkow

Wildkow

p.s. BTW which PHEV forum do you belong too?

I am starting an open source group for an open source charger, an open source BMS, and an open source CAN spoofing board. I'm not sure where to begin but I know it needs to be done! This would be all not for profit.

Originally Posted by aminorjourney

Hi Cheap,

Originally Posted by aminorjourney

I saw your posts. So it was you who had the problems. EEEEEP!

I'm going with the method as currently in development with the parallel OEM packs and BMS + from HybridInterfaces. I'm just waiting until all the prototypes have finished extensive testing.

I totally agree with you on the cost analysis. We need to make this more cost-effective or people just won't follow these projects on. One of the things that have caused problems in the UK EV world is cheap, sub-standard vehicles such as the G-Wiz and extortionately expensive PHEV conversions. Neither does any good for the technlology's publicity.

Perhaps we can hope that CalCars considers building a technical foundation, funded by donation from public bodies, interested enthusiasts and possibly even big business to produce a viable cost-effective solution.

Of course, big companies such as Toyota and GM are the ones who will make PHEV viable if they so choose to do so. Yes, we can do it now but of course the cost and DIY elements will scare people off. Here's hoping that someone can help change that. Maybe a foundation may just work?

Thank you aminorjourney! You get my point. Yes Plug-ins work but the cost is still to high to bring them mainstream. There are ways to bring the cost down.
1. A good charger for less than $1,000.00 U.S. Lets build one for about $200 in parts at home.
2. A good BMS for Li-ion/LiFo batteries. One that checks every cell for a minimum of parts that can be built at home. for $200.00 U.S. total.
3. The box problem has been solved as you can get one built at any metal shop for about $100.00. You'll have to add about $25 in when you get it home.
4. Can-view cost has to come down and the auto industry makes a CAN reader/tester = Spoofer for about $200.00. We could open source that and bring it down to around $50.00

I don't see any reason more open source work on PHEVs could not bring the cost down to $1,000.00 for everything except batteries. With group buys that could come down too.

Originally Posted by dmckinstry

I'll hold off on the PVs until next year.

Originally Posted by dmckinstry

I originally thought I'd to the PHEV conversion myself. Unfortunately, my wife and I are down to one car now. At the rate I do things, a conversion would leave me without a car for months.

I decided to go with Hymotion, even though it would be more expensive and Hymotion's L5 doesn't incorporate regenerative braking. After a trip to the Denver area and back by way of Reno and Sacramento, I noted that the NiMH traction battery didn't get that overfilled, even after a trip down the eastern side of the continental divide. So, regenerative braking through the L5 might not make that much difference anyway.
OTOH, discharging and recharging on the lithium ion should have been more efficient, so I still wish they had designed in regenerative braking.

Oh well.

Dave M.

Dave a PHEV conversion can be done now without the car being down. You can do it in a few weekends and still drive it. Many of the parts can be made by yourself so you can keep the cost down.

Please contact me if you think you can contribute to an open source project for the Charger, BMS, or the CAN Board. There is a lot of data on this on the web already but I just don't have the time to track it all down. The goal would be to keep all the costs for the converter down to a minimum so we can put more on the road. Lead-Acid is out so now we need to look to other alternatives. Yes a second Prius battery is a cheap way to go but we would need Mrbigh’s input on how far you can go with just one or two extra packs.

[aminorjourney]

Cheap,

I think I've found a cheap source of OEM batteries from Prius converted to use completely new PHEV packs. I think the cost of two extra OEM batteries will be cheap enough for me to be able to afford the conversion. A 10 mile range would be what I'd hope for as a minimum for EV only operation. Ideally 15-20 miles would be great.

I'll document if I do it

As for costs, I know where you're going with the charger costs. Although I'm not sure I'd want to build a cheap charger at home. I've had bad experiences in the past and prefer to buy in those.

The CanView I thought was rather good value for money, although that may have something to do with the general high cost of everything in the UK and the fact that the CanView worked out at just over 150% of the cost of the SLi Interface I got at the same time!

Regards,
Nikki.

[dmckinstry]

Originally Posted by Cheap!

Dave a PHEV conversion can be done now without the car being down. You can do it in a few weekends and still drive it. Many of the parts can be made by yourself so you can keep the cost down.

Thanks for that information. I won't do it yet, but I may cancel my Hymotion order. Apparently there's only a $75 cancellation fee. I want to see how Norm's BMS+ works out.

OTOH, apparently the batteries in Hymotion's L5 kit account for about $6k.
If their pack uses the A123's developer kits, it would require 100 kits at $110 each (or a total of $11k) for the batteries alone. Of course, I would hope the 600 batteries (each with ~7.6 W-hr) ordered all at once would be less expensive. I didn't contact A123 about fleet sales, however I did order one $129 kit. I want to do some of my own testing.

Again thanks for the info.

Dave M.

[eagsc7]

Originally Posted by dmckinstry

For those of us who want to convert to PHEV, saving money is obviously not the issue. It's to become independent of petroleum products for transportation. Obviously that isn't completely possible, since we need lubrication products, etc. Of course, I'm using synthetic now. Except for spinning up the engine for lubricating it, I hope my engine never turns on for local driving. I'll find out in November or December. Our electricity is under 6 cents/kW-h, but I eventually hope to put photovoltaics on my roof. I wish Washington State would give the same sort of incentives as California does.


Dave M.

I do agree with WA needing the incintives that CA does. How can we go about getting this type of money on This side of the state.

The Steaks
(Spokane, WA)