Any advice for new Hymotion user in cold weather?

[jessebismarcknd]

Hi all,

I recently purchased a used 2007 Toyota Prius which had the Hymotion L5 pack preinstalled in January 2009. I purchased this car in California and drove it back home to North Dakota. The car averaged 40.1 MPG without the pack charged for the trip home (over the mountains in somewhat cold weather (30-50 degrees)). I would imagine with the pack depleted that my MPGs would be worse (with the extra 200 pounds in back).

Of course, the climate up here can be pretty cold. This week most of the mornings have been anywhere from 10 below to 10 above. I am able to leave in the mornings with a full charge on the L5. I live in a small town where I need to drive probably about a half mile to the highway. For this stretch I am going under 20 mph. During this phase my MPGs are generally 20 or 30. When I get to the highway, I gently accelerate to about 65 or 70 MPH. Once reaching these speeds, my MPGs are usually around 55 overall. I have about 20 miles at this speed until I reach town where I drive about 45 MPH for five miles. Then I have a stretch of about 7 miles at 60 MPH.

Right now, the L5 seems to last about 27 miles. My commute is about 32, where I can plug in and fully recharge. So round trip, the L5 is almost always charged.

Overall my total MPGs since I have been using the pack is only at about 45 MPG. There have been a couple of days where I wasn't able to charge and had to drive back home without the pack charged, so the 45 MPG does include some non-L5 operation. I would say that about 75% of the driving so far has been with the pack charged. Shortly after I purchased I charged it for 2.5 hours and was able to drive 10 miles at 70 mph before it was depleted, but only averaged 47 MPG (it was about 10 degrees with a stiff crosswind though).

I have noted some stretches with over 99.9 MPG....sometimes even around 50 or 55 MPH.

How much effect does using the Climate Control have on the MPGs? Even with the heat running, for some stretches I am still able to get 99.9 MPG, but I would imagine without using the Climate Control, I would be getting much better MPGs.

One thing that is kind of frustrating is not being able to use just electric for short trips under 35 MPH. In town when I drive the MPGs are always low when leaving the garage at home. Even when going downhill without apply the accelerator, I notice MPGs are low...which doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

At work, I often leave for lunch and travel two miles on roads that are entirely under 35 MPH. Here I noticed for pretty much the entire four mile round-trip that my MPGs are only 20-40 or so.

It almost seems like at lower speeds that my MPGs suffer the most.

I did a test the other day going 30-40 MPH with a charged pack and if I was able to stay at those speeds in cruise control, the MPGs were a lot better.....often over 99.9.

Would there be any benefit installing the EV only mode (like the one coastaltech offers)? Can this even be used with the Hymotion pack? It would be really nice to have a way to use electric only for short stretches under 35 MPH. Should you be able to use EV only mode, even when accelerating as long as you are under 35 MPH or does EV only kick in once maintaining a constant speed?

I have heard conflicting reports of whether you can install the EV mode with the Hymotion or not. Some places I read that the Hymotion always tries to request EV so it is unnecessary. I think I even read somewhere that a customer's EV switch that was already in place had to be removed when the Hymotion system was installed.

I am also a little confused about whether the Hymotion pack can be turned on or off during driving. From the Hymotion manual, it seems like this is highly discouraged. Is there any truth to this?

I have also heard of adjustments to allow 52 MPH in a pure EV mode. Would there be any benefit of this, or would this simply deplete the battery a lot faster?

Does anyone else have experience in cold climates? How much difference would a block heater make?

One other thing I had happen, which I think is a known bug is that my check engine light came on along with the triangular red icon with exclamation point one morning after the car sat overnight in 10 below weather. The car started okay (although it made a loud noise at first), but had the error lights on the whole drive to work. I charged the L5 at work, but when I went home, the car would not start. It required a jump. After jumping, I did the thing where you hit start, wait 30 seconds, hit start again, wait 30 seconds, etc.....this cleared the error. The L5 light was blinking though. I drove it for a while, then turned it off for five minutes and then when driving it again, it was ok. Does Hymotion have a fix for this yet?

I appreciate any input, comments, or suggestions.

Thanks!

[ibcs]

Originally Posted by jessebismarcknd

Hi all,

I recently purchased a used 2007 Toyota Prius which had the Hymotion L5 pack preinstalled in January 2009. I purchased this car in California and drove it back home to North Dakota. The car averaged 40.1 MPG without the pack charged for the trip home (over the mountains in somewhat cold weather (30-50 degrees)). I would imagine with the pack depleted that my MPGs would be worse (with the extra 200 pounds in back).

Of course, the climate up here can be pretty cold. This week most of the mornings have been anywhere from 10 below to 10 above. I am able to leave in the mornings with a full charge on the L5. I live in a small town where I need to drive probably about a half mile to the highway. For this stretch I am going under 20 mph. During this phase my MPGs are generally 20 or 30. When I get to the highway, I gently accelerate to about 65 or 70 MPH. Once reaching these speeds, my MPGs are usually around 55 overall. I have about 20 miles at this speed until I reach town where I drive about 45 MPH for five miles. Then I have a stretch of about 7 miles at 60 MPH.

Right now, the L5 seems to last about 27 miles. My commute is about 32, where I can plug in and fully recharge. So round trip, the L5 is almost always charged.

Overall my total MPGs since I have been using the pack is only at about 45 MPG. There have been a couple of days where I wasn't able to charge and had to drive back home without the pack charged, so the 45 MPG does include some non-L5 operation. I would say that about 75% of the driving so far has been with the pack charged. Shortly after I purchased I charged it for 2.5 hours and was able to drive 10 miles at 70 mph before it was depleted, but only averaged 47 MPG (it was about 10 degrees with a stiff crosswind though).

I have noted some stretches with over 99.9 MPG....sometimes even around 50 or 55 MPH.

How much effect does using the Climate Control have on the MPGs? Even with the heat running, for some stretches I am still able to get 99.9 MPG, but I would imagine without using the Climate Control, I would be getting much better MPGs.

One thing that is kind of frustrating is not being able to use just electric for short trips under 35 MPH. In town when I drive the MPGs are always low when leaving the garage at home. Even when going downhill without apply the accelerator, I notice MPGs are low...which doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

At work, I often leave for lunch and travel two miles on roads that are entirely under 35 MPH. Here I noticed for pretty much the entire four mile round-trip that my MPGs are only 20-40 or so.

It almost seems like at lower speeds that my MPGs suffer the most.

I did a test the other day going 30-40 MPH with a charged pack and if I was able to stay at those speeds in cruise control, the MPGs were a lot better.....often over 99.9.

Would there be any benefit installing the EV only mode (like the one coastaltech offers)? Can this even be used with the Hymotion pack? It would be really nice to have a way to use electric only for short stretches under 35 MPH. Should you be able to use EV only mode, even when accelerating as long as you are under 35 MPH or does EV only kick in once maintaining a constant speed?

I have heard conflicting reports of whether you can install the EV mode with the Hymotion or not. Some places I read that the Hymotion always tries to request EV so it is unnecessary. I think I even read somewhere that a customer's EV switch that was already in place had to be removed when the Hymotion system was installed.

I am also a little confused about whether the Hymotion pack can be turned on or off during driving. From the Hymotion manual, it seems like this is highly discouraged. Is there any truth to this?

I have also heard of adjustments to allow 52 MPH in a pure EV mode. Would there be any benefit of this, or would this simply deplete the battery a lot faster?

Does anyone else have experience in cold climates? How much difference would a block heater make?

One other thing I had happen, which I think is a known bug is that my check engine light came on along with the triangular red icon with exclamation point one morning after the car sat overnight in 10 below weather. The car started okay (although it made a loud noise at first), but had the error lights on the whole drive to work. I charged the L5 at work, but when I went home, the car would not start. It required a jump. After jumping, I did the thing where you hit start, wait 30 seconds, hit start again, wait 30 seconds, etc.....this cleared the error. The L5 light was blinking though. I drove it for a while, then turned it off for five minutes and then when driving it again, it was ok. Does Hymotion have a fix for this yet?

I appreciate any input, comments, or suggestions.

Thanks!

I only am going to answer your last question due to time right now. Hymotion has a L5 Booster circuit that works for extremely cold weather. The problem is that the voltage to the L5 drops below 11.5 Volts and causes the red triangle. They sent me the booster circuit, described in other posts with pictures, and I have not had any problem.

I do not feel that you need the EV switch from Coastal, since they took mine out during the installation.

Going out to dinner,
---Kent

[jessebismarcknd]

Originally Posted by ibcs

I only am going to answer your last question due to time right now. Hymotion has a L5 Booster circuit that works for extremely cold weather. The problem is that the voltage to the L5 drops below 11.5 Volts and causes the red triangle. They sent me the booster circuit, described in other posts with pictures, and I have not had any problem.

I do not feel that you need the EV switch from Coastal, since they took mine out during the installation.

Going out to dinner,
---Kent

Thanks for the information....it is appreciated. I will do some checking into this!

[gkalkas]

jessebismarknd

Yes the cold is a problem with any bat, esp Hymotion.

Few things I have done to help:
1, block both upper and 2 lower vents with pipe insulation (under 50 degrees)
2, use my ebh. 3 hours or more helps a lot.
3, heater setting as low as I feel comfortable... fan on "low" or "low plus 1" and heat set to 70. When possible recirculate. When starts to get foggy I toggle off, then on again when windshield is clear.
4, to save watts, when it's really cold, leave the system OFF when starting off. This also avoids the triangle problem. Also, the engine wants to warm up so you are wasting the battery and slowing the warm-up process by running the bat. After a few minutes letting the engine work and warm up,then at a stop light or stop sign, I turn the bat on.

Also, the battery works its best at room temp. So I tell my wife don't feel bad about running the heat higher at first til the cabin warms up some. Then switch Hymotion on.

Re your other question, I always wait til I am at a stop before turning the system on and off. I am babying the system as well as following their safety warning.

Also, today it was high 20's. From a start, as above (ebh, etc.) drove 10 minutes under 40 / stop and go/ got up to speed on freeway; Heater set at low / 70 / recirc. /no wind/ flat... stayed at 60 mph and got 99.9 mpg for 3rd 5 minute bar.

By the way, I got my conversion in Minneapolis.

Hope this helps

[jessebismarcknd]

Originally Posted by gkalkas

jessebismarknd

Yes the cold is a problem with any bat, esp Hymotion.

Few things I have done to help:
1, block both upper and 2 lower vents with pipe insulation (under 50 degrees)
2, use my ebh. 3 hours or more helps a lot.
3, heater setting as low as I feel comfortable... fan on "low" or "low plus 1" and heat set to 70. When possible recirculate. When starts to get foggy I toggle off, then on again when windshield is clear.
4, to save watts, when it's really cold, leave the system OFF when starting off. This also avoids the triangle problem. Also, the engine wants to warm up so you are wasting the battery and slowing the warm-up process by running the bat. After a few minutes letting the engine work and warm up,then at a stop light or stop sign, I turn the bat on.

Also, the battery works its best at room temp. So I tell my wife don't feel bad about running the heat higher at first til the cabin warms up some. Then switch Hymotion on.

Re your other question, I always wait til I am at a stop before turning the system on and off. I am babying the system as well as following their safety warning.

Also, today it was high 20's. From a start, as above (ebh, etc.) drove 10 minutes under 40 / stop and go/ got up to speed on freeway; Heater set at low / 70 / recirc. /no wind/ flat... stayed at 60 mph and got 99.9 mpg for 3rd 5 minute bar.

By the way, I got my conversion in Minneapolis.

Hope this helps

Thanks for the input. I really think I will do better with an engine block heater. I am hoping that the worst of winter in terms of cold is over for this year, but you never know living where I do.

For the past week, the temps have been around 30 and my MPGs have been a LOT better. On flat stretches of road I can over hit 99.9 for continuous stretches as long as it's not windy; up to 60 MPH.

I've also been keeping my battery off when I leave in the morning until I get up to 70 on the main highway. I'd say right now I'm averaging in the mid 60s MPG when going 70. I have a stretch of about 20 miles going 70....then about 4 miles 45-55...the about 7 miles of 60....for the stretch after I am done going 70, my MPGs skyrocket as expected. Most days I make it to work just as my battery runs out.

Do you have an EV switch on yours with the Hymotion installed? I've heard that with some models that these don't work (I think it depends on when it was made). I would love to have an EV-only option for when I leave my garage to drive a mile away from home and back. A quick trip around town is always a major MPG killer.

[PeakOilGarage]

Running the heater is a definite hit to performance. If the heater is on, then the ICE has to engage to provide heat to the interior cabin. So this massively reduces your ability to move in pure EV mode.

Get a ScanGauge II trip computer. The feedback provided to a Hymotion driver will improve your performance MPG by 20% easily.

Monitor Water Temp, GPH (gallons per hour), RPM and MPG.

RPM is important because it tells you when the ICE is ON or OFF. The road vibration can hide this from you. So with ScanGauge, you know by watching the RPM whether it helps to slow down a few MPH to trigger EV mode. This is typically happening around 32 to 33 mph. But when the car is warmed up, you can do EV mode up to about 40 mph.

For North Dakota, I would definitely do an engine block heater to cheat during the warm-up phase. I have one on my car for Seattle, but I don't use it often.

If you get the big red triangle, you can reboot the Hymotion system by flipping the Hymotion switch up/down 5 times really quick.

If you are getting a flashing LED, you can drive the car, but the Hymotion battery will not be providing any engery to the system. Stop the vehicle for 3 to 5 minutes and wait for the flashing light to stop. Then restart the car. It should be fine.

Always have the headlights off, the radio off and the AC/Heater off, when starting the car. Turn them off when parking so that they are already off before startup. This reduces energy requirements during startup so the voltage doesn't drop. This helps to avoid the low voltage (11.5) LED flashing error that is common during cold weather.

When you get good at this, your results will look like this....


728 miles at 99.9+ MPG

[PeakOilGarage]

YouTube - Toyota Prius Hymotion pure EV test

YouTube - Toyota Prius Hymotion pure EV test

[ibcs]

Originally Posted by PeakOilGarage

Running the heater is a definite hit to performance. If the heater is on, then the ICE has to engage to provide heat to the interior cabin. So this massively reduces your ability to move in pure EV mode.

Get a ScanGauge II trip computer. The feedback provided to a Hymotion driver will improve your performance MPG by 20% easily.

Monitor Water Temp, GPH (gallons per hour), RPM and MPG.

RPM is important because it tells you when the ICE is ON or OFF. The road vibration can hide this from you. So with ScanGauge, you know by watching the RPM whether it helps to slow down a few MPH to trigger EV mode. This is typically happening around 32 to 33 mph. But when the car is warmed up, you can do EV mode up to about 40 mph.

For North Dakota, I would definitely do an engine block heater to cheat during the warm-up phase. I have one on my car for Seattle, but I don't use it often.

If you get the big red triangle, you can reboot the Hymotion system by flipping the Hymotion switch up/down 5 times really quick.

If you are getting a flashing LED, you can drive the car, but the Hymotion battery will not be providing any engery to the system. Stop the vehicle for 3 to 5 minutes and wait for the flashing light to stop. Then restart the car. It should be fine.

Always have the headlights off, the radio off and the AC/Heater off, when starting the car. Turn them off when parking so that they are already off before startup. This reduces energy requirements during startup so the voltage doesn't drop. This helps to avoid the low voltage (11.5) LED flashing error that is common during cold weather.

When you get good at this, your results will look like this....


728 miles at 99.9+ MPG

The L5 Booster voltage kit eliminates the red triangle all together. For those people in cold climates, I would highly recommend contacted Hymotion for the upgrade. It does not cause the start immediately, but it corrects the low voltage situation.

---Kent

[PeakOilGarage]

Originally Posted by ibcs

The L5 Booster voltage kit eliminates the red triangle all together. For those people in cold climates, I would highly recommend contacted Hymotion for the upgrade. It does not cause the start immediately, but it corrects the low voltage situation.

---Kent

So I can avoid the firmware update that causes the automatic warmup?

[ibcs]

Originally Posted by PeakOilGarage

So I can avoid the firmware update that causes the automatic warmup?

Absolutely, YES! I do not have the firmware update and would not want it. I like being able to push the forced EV mode when I start the car. Current tank is 250 miles at 80.7 MPG. Weather is finally getting into the 60's. The Hymotion will be great for summer!

---Kent