Best Plug-in Conversion System - Please Weigh In

[docbooks]

I am actively looking for a 2006 Prius to purchase and want to follow that purchase with a plug-in conversion kit. Would appreciate any input reagrding the various kits available insofar as:
Bang for the buck
User friendliness
Good real world results
Customer service/ support
Thanks in advance

[TheForce]

It really depends on how your going to drive it. Are you going to be mopstly driving on the highway or city?

Thes systems do very well on the highway and with an EV button these systems do good in the city.

Hymotion
Plugin Supply
PICC
Any of the Cal-Cars plug in method for DIY.



This one is good for pretty much highway use only or very light city use.

Enginer

[docbooks]

I'm anticipating mostly under 20 mile round trip type of driving with occasional longer excursions

[vertex]

From what I have read, if you are willing to spend the money, PICC is probably the best. You can get the fastest highway speeds in EV and you don't have to turn the car off to exit EV as with others. At least is will be when the integrate the code so you don't need a laptop to run it. Enginer is the best bang for the $$. Or, you can take my approach, and DIY, but that is not for the faint of heart.

[linuxpenguin]

Originally Posted by docbooks

I am actively looking for a 2006 Prius to purchase and want to follow that purchase with a plug-in conversion kit. Would appreciate any input reagrding the various kits available insofar as:
Bang for the buck
User friendliness
Good real world results
Customer service/ support
Thanks in advance

Hi Docbooks,

Bang for the buck: It really depends on what you are looking for. If you are looking for an extremely cheap low end system and don't mind if you only see a 10 to 25 MPG improvement for normal driving then some of these cheap $3k systems may work well enough for you. If on the other hand you want a system that will significantly boost your mileage for short trip driving (25 mile and under) without having to modify your existing driving styles (IE: a system that simply just works) then you probably want the Plugin Conversions Corp 25M system. Yes, it is more expensive than the low end systems but it really does work. I drove 14 miles today and averaged 400 MPG (exactly, ironically) during the trip. Granted, this is probably one of the better case scenarios (I drove with a lighter foot than usual), but the drive included 50+ MPH driving. You can normally expect to see between 150 and 200 MPG during normal driving for the first 20 miles or so depending on your vehicle speed.

The PICC (plugin conversion corp) system also does allow for all electric transit up to 70 MPH and does not require you to pull off the road and restart your vehicle to turn the gasoline engine back on (it's all automatic)--which is a huge safety plus as well as a convenience plus. It uses the Hybrid Energy Manager from Ewert Energy Systems which you can see a video demonstration of at Ewert Energy Systems

User friendliness: Again, the PICC system is 95% automatic in nature. All you have to do is plug it in (and unplug it before driving--though it will not let you drive the car until you unplug it). The PICC display system allows you to select the length of your trip so it can optimize when it uses the electricity--something I don't believe any other conversion currently offers. Most of the other low end systems require you to flip switches or push buttons to turn the system on and off--the PICC system is entirely driven by microprocessors and thus all the transitions are automatic. Since the PICC system replaces the OEM battery entirely, there is no need to flip any switches to shut off DC/DC converters or anything when you run out of battery power--it just switches over to the normal hybrid mode.

PICC is also working on a new display system that will interface directly with the Prius MFD (multi-function display touchscreen)
which makes it even easier to switch modes (EV, Plugin-mode, etc).

Good real world results: As I mentioned above, the low end conversion systems require you to drive special (or for example, require you to turn your car on and leave it parked for a few minutes to let the DC/DC converter catch up because it can't transfer enough current to power the car). This means that if you (the average end user) does not want to drive really slow then your real-world results are probably going to be in the 65-80 MPG range--much worse in the cold of course.

As mentioned above, with the PICC conversion I see anywhere from the low 100's to the mid 300's for the first 20 miles depending on how I drive (and of course, how far I drive. As with any conversion, once the battery depletes the mileage quickly drops). If you only drive 25 - 40 miles a day and can charge it at least once a day (over night, for example) you should see well above 100 MPG on average (EG: I've driven 700 miles on this tank so far and I still have 4 bars left...and lets just say I missed a few days of plugging the car in and it got cold here which means the gasoline engine runs more for heat).

Customer service: All I can comment on is the PICC system. Kim Adelman (president of Plugin Conversions Corp) is very helpful and is willing to stand by his conversion if problems arise. They have a 30 day return policy where if you don't like it, you can return it.

Final thoughts: I mentioned above how the PICC system was a higher powered conversion than the lower end systems. This is because they replace the OEM Toyota battery with their own bigger battery. Other conversion systems such as Hymotion and Enginer keep the OEM Toyota battery and instead feed energy from an extra battery pack to it via a DC/DC converter. This works okay if you just want a small boost to your electric usage but it's not too practical for large-scale electric usage. A DC/DC converter like the ones used in these conversions can only transfer about 10 to 25 amps between the extra battery and the OEM battery. On a hot summer night when you have your headlights on and air conditioner on your car might draw around 10 or 11 amps just in park--you can do the math but that basically means you're powering just your headlights and AC from the converter. If you try to drive the vehicle with the battery you end up running out of electricity because the DC/DC converter can't keep up. With the PICC system the the extra battery /is/ the OEM battery that directly drives the car thus you can use the full power of the battery until it runs out of energy without having to pull off the road and let the battery charge up again. This enables that system to fully utilize the electric motor before using gasoline.

Like I said to start with--it all depends on what you're expecting. If you're expecting 100+ MPG under real world conditions you probably want a more powerful conversion. If you just want something to show friends and poke fun at car companies with--you may be able to get by with something less expensive.

You can find more details about the PICC kit at:
Plug-In Home

Hopefully this helps you some.
Andrew

[bikr357]

Originally Posted by docbooks

I am actively looking for a 2006 Prius to purchase and want to follow that purchase with a plug-in conversion kit. Would appreciate any input reagrding the various kits available insofar as:
Bang for the buck
User friendliness
Good real world results
Customer service/ support
Thanks in advance

Well I can vouch for PICC's customer service. I've had one installed since August. Originally I was having issues with the programing of one of the control boards. Since my conversion was done in Indiana and I live in Houston going back to my installer wasn't really an option. When the modified boards were available Kim Adelman personally came to Houston and together we swapped out the control boards. I'm very pleased that they stand behind their product so well.

[docbooks]

Originally Posted by linuxpenguin

Hi Docbooks,

Bang for the buck: It really depends on what you are looking for. If you are looking for an extremely cheap low end system and don't mind if you only see a 10 to 25 MPG improvement for normal driving then some of these cheap $3k systems may work well enough for you. If on the other hand you want a system that will significantly boost your mileage for short trip driving (25 mile and under) without having to modify your existing driving styles (IE: a system that simply just works) then you probably want the Plugin Conversions Corp 25M system. Yes, it is more expensive than the low end systems but it really does work. I drove 14 miles today and averaged 400 MPG (exactly, ironically) during the trip. Granted, this is probably one of the better case scenarios (I drove with a lighter foot than usual), but the drive included 50+ MPH driving. You can normally expect to see between 150 and 200 MPG during normal driving for the first 20 miles or so depending on your vehicle speed.

The PICC (plugin conversion corp) system also does allow for all electric transit up to 70 MPH and does not require you to pull off the road and restart your vehicle to turn the gasoline engine back on (it's all automatic)--which is a huge safety plus as well as a convenience plus. It uses the Hybrid Energy Manager from Ewert Energy Systems which you can see a video demonstration of at Ewert Energy Systems

User friendliness: Again, the PICC system is 95% automatic in nature. All you have to do is plug it in (and unplug it before driving--though it will not let you drive the car until you unplug it). The PICC display system allows you to select the length of your trip so it can optimize when it uses the electricity--something I don't believe any other conversion currently offers. Most of the other low end systems require you to flip switches or push buttons to turn the system on and off--the PICC system is entirely driven by microprocessors and thus all the transitions are automatic. Since the PICC system replaces the OEM battery entirely, there is no need to flip any switches to shut off DC/DC converters or anything when you run out of battery power--it just switches over to the normal hybrid mode.

PICC is also working on a new display system that will interface directly with the Prius MFD (multi-function display touchscreen)
which makes it even easier to switch modes (EV, Plugin-mode, etc).

Good real world results: As I mentioned above, the low end conversion systems require you to drive special (or for example, require you to turn your car on and leave it parked for a few minutes to let the DC/DC converter catch up because it can't transfer enough current to power the car). This means that if you (the average end user) does not want to drive really slow then your real-world results are probably going to be in the 65-80 MPG range--much worse in the cold of course.

As mentioned above, with the PICC conversion I see anywhere from the low 100's to the mid 300's for the first 20 miles depending on how I drive (and of course, how far I drive. As with any conversion, once the battery depletes the mileage quickly drops). If you only drive 25 - 40 miles a day and can charge it at least once a day (over night, for example) you should see well above 100 MPG on average (EG: I've driven 700 miles on this tank so far and I still have 4 bars left...and lets just say I missed a few days of plugging the car in and it got cold here which means the gasoline engine runs more for heat).

Customer service: All I can comment on is the PICC system. Kim Adelman (president of Plugin Conversions Corp) is very helpful and is willing to stand by his conversion if problems arise. They have a 30 day return policy where if you don't like it, you can return it.

Final thoughts: I mentioned above how the PICC system was a higher powered conversion than the lower end systems. This is because they replace the OEM Toyota battery with their own bigger battery. Other conversion systems such as Hymotion and Enginer keep the OEM Toyota battery and instead feed energy from an extra battery pack to it via a DC/DC converter. This works okay if you just want a small boost to your electric usage but it's not too practical for large-scale electric usage. A DC/DC converter like the ones used in these conversions can only transfer about 10 to 25 amps between the extra battery and the OEM battery. On a hot summer night when you have your headlights on and air conditioner on your car might draw around 10 or 11 amps just in park--you can do the math but that basically means you're powering just your headlights and AC from the converter. If you try to drive the vehicle with the battery you end up running out of electricity because the DC/DC converter can't keep up. With the PICC system the the extra battery /is/ the OEM battery that directly drives the car thus you can use the full power of the battery until it runs out of energy without having to pull off the road and let the battery charge up again. This enables that system to fully utilize the electric motor before using gasoline.

Like I said to start with--it all depends on what you're expecting. If you're expecting 100+ MPG under real world conditions you probably want a more powerful conversion. If you just want something to show friends and poke fun at car companies with--you may be able to get by with something less expensive.

You can find more details about the PICC kit at:
Plug-In Home

Hopefully this helps you some.
Andrew

Thanks Andrew for taking the time for your VERY informative post -- you've given me a lot to ponder

[zcat3]

Why is the PICC kit better than the Hymotion kit (disclaimer - I have the Hymotion kit)? Hymotion is 5 kWh with a "blended" range of about 30 - 40 miles. I have been able to get up to 110 MPG during my 28 mile commute to San Francisco, which involves several steep climbs and freeway speeds up to 75 mph. My average MPG over a year of making this commute with the Hymotion pack is about 85 - 90 MPG. I have had several days or R/T MPG of over 100 (I can plug in at work). The Hymotion software appears to turn off the ICE when the battery can power the car alone, even at freeway speeds. I have been traveling at 65 - 70 MPH and have seen no gas being used either on the SCAN gauge or the Prius MFD. Unlike the PICC kit, however, the Hymotion will not let you select EV only mode. I would estimate that under flat lower speed conditions where the PICC kit gets 25 miles EV, the Hymotion would get 20 miles in EV mode.

The advantages of the Hymotion kit is that it is very simple to use and has Lithium Ion Phosphate batteries that should outlast the NiMH batteries and weigh substantially less. Hymotion also has a large install base and has a few years under their belt. I have had the kit for a year now and have had no problems with it. From reading about the PICC kit, I would say it has some advantages as well - notably a larger capacity, the ability to capture regen braking, and a more sophisticated user interface that allows for things such as EV mode to be selected by the driver. The downside, of course, is that the PICC system is $3500 more. The other downside for PICC has to be the weight of the system. I could not find any information on their site, but this pack has to weigh in the 300 pound range, which means you really need to upgrade the rear suspension with heavier duty shocks and springs - which could easily add another $500 or more to the cost (perhaps PICC includes this in their system price?).

One thing I should point out about PHEV kits is they really do require you to change your driving style to get maximum results. The stock Prius can pretty easily get 50 MPG with pretty normal driving styles - no hypermiling techniques required. If you drive a PHEV Prius aggressively at all, you lose many of the benefits - to the point IMO that you are wasting more energy than just with a stock PRIUS alone. As an example, my wife routinely gets 50 MPG in our Prius (with no Hymotion assist) on the same drive to San Francisco as my commute. If I really work at it, I could get maybe 52-53 MPG under the same circumstances. If I add Hymotion assist, I could double those numbers and maybe get 100 - 110 MPG; whereas my wife with the Hymotion assist would get maybe 75 - 80 MPG as she does not change her driving style (mostly this requires playing the momentum game as opposed to just setting cruise at 65 - 70).

[plugmein2]

If you want the ablility to "plug-in", I would choose the Enginer 2KW kit for $1995 ($3495 for 4KW). This is a good way to understand the plug-in concept and to get familiar with how the system works without paying over $10,000.

I researched both Hymotion and PICC and found them to be too pricey, techy and complicated for a layman like me. I just wanted to be able to enhance my Prius to plug-in without selling one of my kids on ebay.

Anyway, like the others have said before me. It depends on the performance you want. I have been intrigued by the high speeds at which Hymotion and PICC have been able to stay in EV, however, I have found the Enginer to meet my expectations because of how I have learned to drive it. BTW, you do not have to turn off the car or stop go to into EV mode. For the price, no one can beat it.

Hope this helps your decision process.

JOANNA

[plugmein2]

Oops pressed the wrong button. Sent twice.
Joanna