Prius as a non hybrid

ibcs · 03-07-2007, 10:13 PM

Today I was driving and a wierd thought occurred to me. What would be the mileage of a Prius if it did not have hybrid component? I realize it would not need all the electronics, but has anyone ever considered how much the hybrid battery increases mileage. Does Toyota have a simular engine in another vehicle for comparison?

Thanks for you thoughts.

**efusco** · 03-07-2007, 10:16 PM

It would be very good, not as good as the full hybrid version, but it could be very good...the problem is there would be no power for acceleration or passing at all due to the Atkinson cycle ICE.

V8Cobrakid · 03-07-2007, 10:22 PM

It's more about the power delivery system. If you run the current prius engine through a normal transmission, i'm sure you'll get around low 30mpg.

as is, the corolla has a bigger engine. it creates roughly 17 more hp.

the prius weighs in a couple hundred lbs heavier.

I have a feeling that if you made the mofications, and took out the battery, you would get around 35mpg.

It was said, in the past, that the prius gives a 30% gain over traditional engines.

ibcs · 03-07-2007, 10:26 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Mar 7 2007, 11:16 PM) [snapback]402030[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

It would be very good, not as good as the full hybrid version, but it could be very good...the problem is there would be no power for acceleration or passing at all due to the Atkinson cycle ICE. [/b]

Now that's interesting, I did not think about the acceleration at all. But your right, the car would be a dog compared to quite peppy. I just thought it would be an interesting discussion on how much the hybrid increased the mileage.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(V8Cobrakid @ Mar 7 2007, 11:22 PM) [snapback]402032[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

It's more about the power delivery system. If you run the current prius engine through a normal transmission, i'm sure you'll get around low 30mpg.

as is, the corolla has a bigger engine. it creates roughly 17 more hp.

the prius weighs in a couple hundred lbs heavier.

I have a feeling that if you made the mofications, and took out the battery, you would get around 35mpg.

It was said, in the past, that the prius gives a 30% gain over traditional engines. [/b]

Great analysis - I can't say enough how much I enjoy the Prius - bravo Toyota!

Sarge · 03-07-2007, 10:30 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ibcs @ Mar 7 2007, 10:13 PM) [snapback]402028[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Today I was driving and a wierd thought occurred to me. What would be the mileage of a Prius if it did not have hybrid component? I realize it would not need all the electronics, but has anyone ever considered how much the hybrid battery increases mileage. Does Toyota have a simular engine in another vehicle for comparison?
[/b]

I remember hearing that the same 1.5L engine is also used in the Yaris, but with a conventional transmission. (?)

Not sure if that is accurate or not....

**efusco** · 03-07-2007, 10:32 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarge @ Mar 7 2007, 09:30 PM) [snapback]402034[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

I remember hearing that the same 1.5L engine is also used in the Yaris, but with a conventional transmission. (?)

Not sure if that is accurate or not.... [/b]

It's essentially the same that was in the Echo (maybe the Yaris too...I dont know)...but it was an Otto Cycle in the Echo instead of an Atkinson cycle.

hobbit · 03-07-2007, 10:36 PM

Actually that powerplant is good for 50 MPG by itself... especially
the way that the torque / throttle control is done.
.
You can find my "non-hybrid experiment" in the archives here or
over at cleanmpg.com, or you can experiment for yourself and get
some numbers:
.
_ Coast in neutral with the engine running instead of allowing it
_ to shut down. Sometimes "B" helps maintain running too.
.
_ Stay in neutral and use the friction brakes to slow down instead.
.
_ Idle at lights. Idle at the drive-thru while waiting for food.
.
Combine this with good ecodriving techniques, and you'll probably
be surprised by how well you can do.
.
_H*

Godiva · 03-07-2007, 10:47 PM

Well, if you took out all of the batteries and the electric motor, it would be lighter. You could then put in a slightly larger engine. It still wouldn't be peppy. But I'm thinking somewhere around 30 give or take a few.

Beryl Octet · 03-07-2007, 10:58 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Mar 7 2007, 10:36 PM) [snapback]402038[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Actually that powerplant is good for 50 MPG by itself...
[/b]

Just thinking about it, isn't the Prius out on the highway at cruising speed basically going to be operating on the ICE alone at some point, assuming a level highway? So, it seems like 50 highway and maybe 40 in the city.

**Tideland Prius** · 03-07-2007, 10:59 PM

Just take a look at a 1.6 or 1.3 Corolla in other parts of the world.. it should be similar to them.

It's not just the battery that helps with mileage. The Atkinson cycle, the PSD (CVT) and the fact that the hybrid system allows the engine to be off while in motion.

To a lesser extent, the power steering and electronic A/C help reduce load on the engine.

The engine in the Prius is the 1NZ-FXE which is the same as the 1NZ-FE in the Echo/Yaris/Vitz/xA/xB. X is the code for hybrid.

I doubt the NZ series engine will stay around much longer. It's already 8 years old.

I'd rather see the new 1ZR-FE engine (1.6 litre) that'll be in the new Corolla (the US Corolla will get the 2ZR-FE 1.8 litre dual VVT-i).

03-07-2007, 10:59 PM	#10
Tideland Prius Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 13,920 My Car: 2005 Prius Package: B Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 11	Just take a look at a 1.6 or 1.3 Corolla in other parts of the world.. it should be similar to them. It's not just the battery that helps with mileage. The Atkinson cycle, the PSD (CVT) and the fact that the hybrid system allows the engine to be off while in motion. To a lesser extent, the power steering and electronic A/C help reduce load on the engine. The engine in the Prius is the 1NZ-FXE which is the same as the 1NZ-FE in the Echo/Yaris/Vitz/xA/xB. X is the code for hybrid. I doubt the NZ series engine will stay around much longer. It's already 8 years old. I'd rather see the new 1ZR-FE engine (1.6 litre) that'll be in the new Corolla (the US Corolla will get the 2ZR-FE 1.8 litre dual VVT-i). __________________ 2005 Tideland Pearl Premium Package as of 25th Oct 2004 VVT-i Emblem, Sport Pedals, OEM All-Weather Mats, Cargo Mat, EV Mod, JDM Prius Interior Footwell Lighting, DICE iPod Integration Kit, LED licence plate lights, Phillips Vision Plus 2008 smart fortwo passion coupé as of 28th Apr 2008 Foglights, dash pods, leather seats, OEM rubber mats, BRABUS alum. handbrake, LED licence plate lights & dome lamp

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03-07-2007, 10:13 PM	#1
ibcs Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Englewood , Ohio Posts: 283 My Car: 2006 Prius Package: #6 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 3	Today I was driving and a wierd thought occurred to me. What would be the mileage of a Prius if it did not have hybrid component? I realize it would not need all the electronics, but has anyone ever considered how much the hybrid battery increases mileage. Does Toyota have a simular engine in another vehicle for comparison? Thanks for you thoughts.

03-07-2007, 10:16 PM	#2
efusco Troll Slayer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nixa, MO Posts: 14,247 My Car: 2004 Prius Package: #9 Nominated 1 Time in 1 Post TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 24	It would be very good, not as good as the full hybrid version, but it could be very good...the problem is there would be no power for acceleration or passing at all due to the Atkinson cycle ICE.

03-07-2007, 10:22 PM	#3
V8Cobrakid some guy... Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,563 My Car: 2004 Prius Package: #9 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 5	It's more about the power delivery system. If you run the current prius engine through a normal transmission, i'm sure you'll get around low 30mpg. as is, the corolla has a bigger engine. it creates roughly 17 more hp. the prius weighs in a couple hundred lbs heavier. I have a feeling that if you made the mofications, and took out the battery, you would get around 35mpg. It was said, in the past, that the prius gives a 30% gain over traditional engines.

03-07-2007, 10:36 PM	#7
hobbit Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bahstahn Posts: 2,989 My Car: Package: Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 0	Actually that powerplant is good for 50 MPG by itself... especially the way that the torque / throttle control is done. . You can find my "non-hybrid experiment" in the archives here or over at cleanmpg.com, or you can experiment for yourself and get some numbers: . _ Coast in neutral with the engine running instead of allowing it _ to shut down. Sometimes "B" helps maintain running too. . _ Stay in neutral and use the friction brakes to slow down instead. . _ Idle at lights. Idle at the drive-thru while waiting for food. . Combine this with good ecodriving techniques, and you'll probably be surprised by how well you can do. . _H*

03-07-2007, 10:47 PM	#8
Godiva AmeriKan Citizen Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 10,021 My Car: 2005 Prius Package: #1 Nominated 3 Times in 2 Posts TOTM Awards: 0 Friends: 6	Well, if you took out all of the batteries and the electric motor, it would be lighter. You could then put in a slightly larger engine. It still wouldn't be peppy. But I'm thinking somewhere around 30 give or take a few.