Can we purchase and install the Third Generation Lithium-Ion Battery Pack to our 2004 - 2007 Prius

[JeffElectric]

Interested to know if us Prius owners (in my case 2007 model year) would be able to purchase and install the new third generation lithium-ion battery pack to our existing 2004 - 2007 model Prius vehicles when available. Additionally, do you think that a computer upgrade would be too costly as well.

[efusco]

I'm going to say "no". Of course we can't know for absolute certain since it doesn't actually exist yet, but more than likely the voltage will be higher than the current NiMH and it wouldn't fit in the spot and they'll probably be smart enough to put different connectors on to keep people from trying.

While it may be possible to somehow hack one in you'd probably constantly be throwing codes as all the voltage and amperage parameters would be outside of the specs of the current battery.

[ScottY]

I would think charge/discharge rate, SOC limits, temperature range, etc. will be different between different battery chemistries. That will require ECU re-programming? Not something that normal people can do.

[chinalfr]

That will be a nice upgrade features, but I don't think the car manufacturer will allowed. 3rd party addon might be feasible.

IMO, by the time the technology is available, I will be driving the latest Gen Prius.

[D0li0]

I have no doubt that Toyota could make that happen. They could offer battery and PHEV (Plug-in, If they go there) upgrades to 2004+ Prius owners. It would honestly take them well under an hour to swap out the original grey battery box for a new one, containing a new battery ecu that was programmed for the larger capacity Lithium and plug in options. How do I know Toyota could do it, because we (many PHEV Prius projects) have already done it ourselves...

[KTPhil]

Although I hope they would, I really doubt it.

To change the battery would require recertification that it meets EPA regs. Although it's "just a battery" it would have a great effect (presumably beneficial, but they have to prove it) on emissions. It takes a large number of cars and tests to get certified, and Toyota would have to have a supply of "new 2004" Priuses to run the tests on. And the software recalibration would have to come after a lot of testing and programming. By the time they recoup that investment through higher battery csots, that new battery would cost as much as a new Prius.

All that expense for what benefit? Besides, they want to sell NEW Priuses, not upgrade older Priuses! They would probably CHOOSE not to even if it was feasible.

I hate this answer, but I think it's the truth.

[adam1991]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KTPhil @ Mar 14 2007, 04:14 PM) [snapback]405604[/snapback]</div>

Although I hope they would, I really doubt it.

To change the battery would require recertification that it meets EPA regs. Although it's "just a battery" it would have a great effect (presumably beneficial, but they have to prove it) on emissions. It takes a large number of cars and tests to get certified, and Toyota would have to have a supply of "new 2004" Priuses to run the tests on. And the software recalibration would have to come after a lot of testing and programming. By the time they recoup that investment through higher battery csots, that new battery would cost as much as a new Prius.

All that expense for what benefit? Besides, they want to sell NEW Priuses, not upgrade older Priuses! They would probably CHOOSE not to even if it was feasible.

I hate this answer, but I think it's the truth.
[/b]

Yeah, that's not a very environmentally-friendly attitude, is it?

In the end, Toyota wants to sell cars. Toyota doesn't care about the environment any more than its customers force it to.

Customers want Toyota hybrid vehicles--great. They'll be happy to sell such vehicles. But extend the length of the life of a car they've already sold? That's HERESY to a sales organization. They want you to buy the NEW one.

Now let's talk about all of you who go out and continue this cycle, buying the latest and greatest car not because yours isn't safe or roadworthy, but because it doesn't have this or that doodad. You're putting your old car back into the wilderness and are encouraging Toyota to use up natural resources to build a new car to satisfy--what? Gadget lust?

You'd do all that just for gadget lust? That's not very environmentally friendly.

Don't blame Toyota. They're just a mindless corporate money machine, driven by their customers. Blame the customers--in this case, the so-called environmentally friendly crowd who, ironically, doesn't care about the impact of forcing yet another car to be built.

[Gadgetdad]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(adam1991 @ Mar 14 2007, 05:12 PM) [snapback]405730[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, that's not a very environmentally-friendly attitude, is it?

In the end, Toyota wants to sell cars. Toyota doesn't care about the environment any more than its customers force it to.

Customers want Toyota hybrid vehicles--great. They'll be happy to sell such vehicles. But extend the length of the life of a car they've already sold? That's HERESY to a sales organization. They want you to buy the NEW one.

Now let's talk about all of you who go out and continue this cycle, buying the latest and greatest car not because yours isn't safe or roadworthy, but because it doesn't have this or that doodad. You're putting your old car back into the wilderness and are encouraging Toyota to use up natural resources to build a new car to satisfy--what? Gadget lust?

You'd do all that just for gadget lust? That's not very environmentally friendly.

Don't blame Toyota. They're just a mindless corporate money machine, driven by their customers. Blame the customers--in this case, the so-called environmentally friendly crowd who, ironically, doesn't care about the impact of forcing yet another car to be built.
[/b]

Gadget Lust! I am cut to the quick. Guilty, but throw myself on the mercy of the New World court. We are Pioneers willing to go where the common consumers are unwilling. With out us great innovations and breakthroughs would not happen. Without the desire for the latest and greatest, we would still be driving a Model T.... maybe even fueled with Whale oil (a renewable resource BTW). Remember that our castaway Prii find good second owners, and third.... Yes Toyota wants to sell cars but there is a whole lot more market share they could gain by being transportation solution providers, not just car makers for the world. Why not bolster their dealership profit margin by training the mechanics to swap out batteries and reprogram the computers for a fee?

[cubbyg]

I think it would be a fantastic idea if our congress would pass legislation to transfer the 2 billion tax credit from the oil companys to all the Prius / Hybrid owners to convert to the newer battery technology. I would vote for that.

[cwerdna]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KTPhil @ Mar 14 2007, 01:14 PM) [snapback]405604[/snapback]</div>

Although I hope they would, I really doubt it.

To change the battery would require recertification that it meets EPA regs. Although it's "just a battery" it would have a great effect (presumably beneficial, but they have to prove it) on emissions. It takes a large number of cars and tests to get certified, and Toyota would have to have a supply of "new 2004" Priuses to run the tests on. And the software recalibration would have to come after a lot of testing and programming. By the time they recoup that investment through higher battery csots, that new battery would cost as much as a new Prius.

All that expense for what benefit? Besides, they want to sell NEW Priuses, not upgrade older Priuses! They would probably CHOOSE not to even if it was feasible.

I hate this answer, but I think it's the truth.
[/b]

Exactly! There won't be enough demand for Toyota to justify the cost to do this and be also be able to sell it at a price that consumers are willing to pay. They'd much rather sell you a new car.

A Toyota rep at a hybrid seminar at Toyota Sunnyvale MANY months ago basically said something to the above effect when asked a similar question.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(adam1991 @ Mar 14 2007, 05:12 PM) [snapback]405730[/snapback]</div>

Don't blame Toyota. They're just a mindless corporate money machine, driven by their customers. Blame the customers--
[/b]

It's not just the customers, but it's (the wants and needs of) Wall Street/the investment community and shareholders. Toyota is a for profit company, not a charity.