Toyota wants over $10,000 to fix my Prius, for starters!

[naplesprius]

I recently bought a salvage titled 06 Prius with average front end damage. My body shop friend and I fixed all visible damage in my garage, and brought to Toyota to get running. There is no warranty on the car and they said it needed a battery, inverter, and complete a/c system since the line was cracked and this probably allowed moisture into system. Like any hard working American who was just given an estimate of over $10,000 to fix his car, I took the car to a hybrid certified private shop for a second opinion. He shows the battery voltage at 180, and says the battery needs to be charged or replaced. Does anyone have a contact for someone who I can send my battery to for charging? I was told they are scarce. Also, I am looking for a replacement battery in the usual locations and would like to know what the voltage should be at for a used battery to work in my car. My mechanic told me it needs to be 330 volts for the system to work properly. One for sale that I checked on only had 215 volts. What is acceptable voltage for this to work in my car? There are a lot of these batteries for sale, but how do I know they are still good?

[Godiva]

Toyota recycles the batteries in the Prius. Don't know where you'll get one.

The battery and the inverter are two of the three most expensive things to replace.

This is why I avoid salvage. If it's too good to be true...it usually is.

[galaxee]

the only chargers are in the hands of the toyota regional reps- good luck getting them to do that, outside warranty they just replace. cost isn't that different anyway.

not to come off harsh or anything, but you probably should have gotten that mechanical estimate so you knew what you were getting yourself into, before sticking time and money into the body and related stuff.

[Patrick Wong]

Originally Posted by naplesprius

...I took the car to a hybrid certified private shop for a second opinion. He shows the battery voltage at 180, and says the battery needs to be charged or replaced. Does anyone have a contact for someone who I can send my battery to for charging? I was told they are scarce. Also, I am looking for a replacement battery in the usual locations and would like to know what the voltage should be at for a used battery to work in my car. My mechanic told me it needs to be 330 volts for the system to work properly. One for sale that I checked on only had 215 volts. What is acceptable voltage for this to work in my car? There are a lot of these batteries for sale, but how do I know they are still good?

Unfortunately, your mechanic is incorrect re: 330V. Perhaps he is thinking of the Classic Prius, but even so a voltage of ~300V should be OK since the nominal voltage is 273.6V.

The 2G traction battery has 28 modules. Each module contains six 1.2V cells. Hence the nominal voltage is 1.2V/cell x 6 cells/module x 28 modules/battery = 201.6V/battery.

There's no guarantee that a salvage battery will work. The battery with 215V might be OK, or it might not be OK. One concern about the battery is if the internal resistance of one module is different than the other 27 modules, then when the battery is placed under load the voltage produced by the one module will be different, causing a DTC to be logged.

[David Beale]

Now you know why the car has "salvage" status.

Note, the following can be DANGEROUS!! 200V DC is much more dangerous than 200V AC. Please ensure anyone who tries this is knowledgeable and experienced in DC power.

Got any friends who are electronics guys? All you need to put some charge into the battery is a low current 250VDC (max) source. This would charge the battery to 1.5V per cell which is the fully charged voltage for a nickle metal hydride cell. As soon as you put a load on it the voltage will drop to about 1.25 per cell. If you charge it this way it will also "equalize" the battery (ensure ALL cells are fully charged), but you MUST ensure the current is low, otherwise you could overheat some cells and they would vent electrolyte. I would suggest 50 mA or less.
After an overnight charge, the battery should measure above 201V.
This alone might return the car to operational status, once the codes are cleared. Presuming the inverter coolant loop is functional, along with the engine coolant system, etc.

[bwilson4web]

Hi,

Originally Posted by naplesprius

I recently bought a salvage titled 06 Prius with average front end damage. My body shop friend and I fixed all visible damage in my garage, and brought to Toyota to get running. There is no warranty on the car and they said it needed a battery, inverter, and complete a/c system since the line was cracked and this probably allowed moisture into system. Like any hard working American who was just given an estimate of over $10,000 to fix his car,

Do you have the maintenance manual for your car? Toyota sells them, a little expensive, but it is the roadmap you'll need for what needs to be done next.

Get the manual or either of the other two 3d party manuals and we'll be able to help a lot more. Don't begrudge Toyota who has a different set of requirements to address. Realize that now you are getting to the last parts and need to know what to do next.

Do you have a scanner that can read out the engine, battery and hybrid ECU codes? This will give you what the computers are reporting and very critical. Otherwise, you are flying 'blind.'

Expensive, you can ask Toyota to read out the codes, the battery module status and get a hardcopy of them. You may need to read them out more than once so getting a good scanner is important.

The Prius radiator is an especially expensive part. It incorporates both the AC heat exchanger and the engine coolant radiator. I'm not an expert in the NHW20 but I remember once seeing a posting that the NHW20 radiator also has the inverter coolant radiator but I am not sure. Regardless, it is an impressive if expensive part by itself.

Originally Posted by naplesprius

... I took the car to a hybrid certified private shop for a second opinion. He shows the battery voltage at 180, and says the battery needs to be charged or replaced. Does anyone have a contact for someone who I can send my battery to for charging? I was told they are scarce.

Respect your battery and be very, very careful with trying to recharge it:

Originally Posted by naplesprius

... Also, I am looking for a replacement battery in the usual locations and would like to know what the voltage should be at for a used battery to work in my car. My mechanic told me it needs to be 330 volts for the system to work properly. One for sale that I checked on only had 215 volts. What is acceptable voltage for this to work in my car? There are a lot of these batteries for sale, but how do I know they are still good?

As Patrick pointed out, the NHW11 has 38 of these 7.2 volt modules, ~274 VDC. The NHW20 has 28 of these 7.2 volt modules, ~202 VDC.

If you want to recharge the battery, you will need to safely remove it from the car, it is heavy, and put it on a bench or safe place to work. You will then need a smart RC battery charger like the MRC 989 or equivalent:


You will program the MRC 989 for the 6 NiMH cells in each battery module and use the cycle option to run them through a series of discharge/charge cycles. If each module is OK, they will regain their cell capacity and you can actually use this to survey each module:

Understand that this takes time, about 1-2 days per module, and it might be faster to replace the battery with one that has documented more capacity. If you decide to go that route, let me know because I am interested in worn out NHW20 battery packs for my experimental work refurbishing batteries.

My recommendation is get the maintenance manuals and join the YahooGroup, "Prius Technical Stuff." The folks who tend to do things like this are over there and real subject matter experts. BTW, there is a delay on the first post due to SPAM checking. Be patient and you'll get get in. In the meanwhile, search the messages and look over some of the photos.

GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson

[Sheepdog]

wow Bob. Why do I get the feeling you have seen every inch of your car intimately?