Gasbuddy Poll: "Would you consider an electric or hybrid for your next vehicle?"

Notice the narrow definition of 'requirements' that is willfully ignorant of why in March, anyone would choose from:

• 2,528 - largest, Prius v
• 10,917 - standard, Prius hatchback
• 1,452 - standard, Prius Plug-In, uses electric and gas
• 3,685 - compact, Prius c

In effect, about 14,000 buyers paid for Prius that were not the Prius c. These people didn't need a recommendation because they used their own requirements to make their choice. Add the poor situational awareness to advocate non-Prius cars in PriusChat.

In effect, going into a dog park and telling each owner,'I would never recommend THAT dog.' Small wonder that such hubris, such absolute lack of common sense meets the rightfully earned criticism. Perhaps the sole objective was to repeat the Monty Python skit,"The Argument." But there is another alternative, seeking an education.

In a trade-study, we start with the requirements separated between mandatory and optional. Each gets a weighting based upon the buyer's judgement. Then the one with the gold makes the choice and the others walk.

The worst is the lack of imagination, the repetition of that 'one trick pony', the faux recommendation, that doesn't work here. It repeats the same 'logic' we have seen since the Prius first arrived . . . an attempt to claim fuel economy does not justify a Prius purchase . . . by offering a Piece Of Stuff (POS) alternative. I remember the Consumer Reports 2001 review of the NHW11, the first Prius in North America. Repeating it is hackney, lazy, sloth debunked by every Prius buyer since the first.

Does this mean the Prius is the perfect car for everyone, no. It is the buyer's requirements that drives that decision. But if someone wants to use these debunked analysis to have an effect, go find a pool of users not tainted by Prius experience. Seek those who have never owned a Prius and can be fooled. But here, such nonsense has been debunked and as Prius owners, we're not going to run out and 'sell our cars' because some nonsense posted in a forum.

Bob Wilson

 

ummm... ya, I would consider it ​

​

 

You bring up a good point, which is why lame Prius commercials are pilloried here. Those of us who have bought Prius have done our own experiments not just to improve mileage but add functionality:

• Emergency power - the Prius MG1 with proper software in the power inverter and the right plug should produce nearly 20kW of sine-wave power. It should only be limited by cooling of the MG1 inverter when the car is parked. For a home owner, 7-8kW with surge to 12-15kW for 5 seconds would be perfect.
• Towing - the 1.8L Prius have a variation of the Highlander transmission and should be rated for a significant fraction of the 2,000 lbs of the Highlander hybrid. Offer stiffer rear springs and tow packages.
• Light pickup - put a rear bulkhead behind the front seats; cut down and back to make a pickup, load bed, and; install a removable bed liner to allow access to the traction battery. It should be the equivalent of an S-10.
• Advertise the traction battery replacement cost - it is time that "$10,000" urban legend die.

The current Prius commercials are trying to sell to directors of high school plays and local theater groups. Singing, dancing, unbearably cute, they do nothing to address any competitive vehicle requirements. Not to sound sexist but it is past time the Prius 'grows a pair.'

Bob Wilson

 

^
Concur.
If they made a small P/U variant of the G3 they would sell every one that they make.
I'm not talking about the bloated "small" trucks that they're selling today but something along the lines of an old Mitsu/Dodge truck from the 80s.


Speaking of Dodge, a company whose products I don't buy.....why are they continuing to kick 4 square yards of our butt in marketing???!!!
Toyota can slay the battery demond by amping up the OEM battery warranty (pun almost unintended) and they should IMMEDIATELY fire and (further) blacklist anybody who has ever had anything to do with the last 10 Prius commercials that I've seen.
Dodge may not build great cars....but their advirtising is world class......and from what their cheerleaders are telling me....their cars are getting a LOT better.

YMMV.

 

Much better than corporate commercials.

 

My mileage with a Chrysler product was a dropped driveshaft three times in 10 months on my new '71 Duster 318 that got 11mpg. Traded for an Opel 1900 and never looked back.

I've never owned an American brand car after that debacle.

 

I really doubt saying $3000 replacement cost for the battery would sell many if any more than today. On the battery side of it there is FUD about how early it will fail. If they were all failing at 8 years, that would be a very bad story, and that is the FUD, along with your replacement won;t last as long (which might not be fud).

On Towing I'm sure toyota engineers see some problems, otherwise they would allow it. The highlander hybrid with towing has awd, which may be needed for towing stability and psd durability. I don't know. I know you have towed, but that is different than toyota being on the hook for accidents from unstable towing.

I too would like a hybrid light pickup. It is more complicated than just adding a bed to a prius though.

I doubt they would have sold very many. These bloated trucks get the same fuel economy or better than those old small trucks.
Compare Side-by-Side

The difference is safety and pollution requirements have gone up so much since the mid 80s for trucks, that the price difference is not that great. You need to rethink the truck -> aerodynamics and eAWD to make a hybrid. If you are looking at toyota hybrid hardware, I would think the 2.5 or 2.5 di version would be the minimum hp. It won't get significantly worse mpg than the 1.8 in the less aero and higher rolling resistance truck package, but those things mean people will expect more oomph for the hybrid premium. I would think a 2 kwh lithium would be the smallest size battery I would put in a eAwd hybrid truck, and this should be only about $1K cost to the manufacturer (maybe make them plug ins) if you are going to do fwd hsd and rwd motor like in the LRxh and tow like a truck. Ford may be right, and you go aluminum body on steel frame to reduce weight as the base of this new truck.

 

Only the AWD Highlander and RX have a tow rating. The rating for the FWD RX is zero. Perhaps we'll get a tow rating on an AWD Prius, but I doubt it here in the US. Car models, including small ones, that have tow ratings over seas aren't recommended for towing by the manufacturer here. The public has been brain washed into thinking they need a truck or SUV to tow anything so the dealers can upsell larger, more profitable vehicles.

 

Its not the dealers trollbait. Its the regulators and manufacturers. In order to have a tow rating, it needs to have both enough torque, braking, and steering control in bad weather. My guess is the tires would start to lose traction then the electronic nannies would kick in making the prius unsafe to tow. upgrade the tires and psd, retard the electronic nannies and the prius probably could get a tow rating, but toyota does not want to do that as it would get worse mpg, especially on the city test, and would cost a tiny bit more. Those other countries have lower tow safety regulations, and it might be nice if we reduced ours. I mean don't tow up hill in the rain ;-) how tough is that, but lawyers and the insurance organizations like IIHS don't like it, and the car companies (toyota, gm, ford) don't care enough to try to change those regulations.

 

I have been towing with my Prius for about 18 months now; and yes you will take a hit on MPG.
The Prius hybrid CAN tow!! You will have to beef-up the rear. I would like Toyota, to up their limit of 825 LBS to 2000 LBS for occupants and luggage; whats left over can be used for towing. My record for total weight for occupants, luggage and towing is 2700 LBS; which IS over doing it!! I don't see anything wrong towing 1500 LBS.

I'm not sure about this latest recall on how it would affect high RPM's and the converter output. I do understand the over heating part; as I stated in my thread, " Prius pulling a RV? What do you pull !! "

My vote is for the hybrid; because when I tow, I use both gas and electric.
I love my Prius, but I do put my Prius to work, sometimes!!

 

Just about all the cars with a zero tow rating can, and do have official ratings in other markets. The Prius does not. I suspect it mostly is CYA from Toyota than any physical capabilities of the car. On early gen2s, the traction control was quite 'proactive'. Even if its behavior has been improved, it is not intended to be turned off by the end user.

The Prius is FWD. Unless a weight distributing hitch is used, towing will put more weight on the rear of the vehicle, and shift some from the front. Less weight on the front wheels means less traction, and an increased likely hood of the TC engaging. Which could lead to potential problems if it happens while towing, in or out of traffic.

 

Towing with the Prius can be done, however one must try to calculate what the "rated capacity" is. We all know it is = zero, however if one needed to tow a ultra light load (approx. 300 maybe 500 lbs), then yes. This can be done for short distances (around town) and only on a irregular basis.

Anything larger in weight and/or distance - use a truck matched to haul the load. Total carrying / towing capacity for me = trucks hauling / towing capacity minus 20%. This is my safety margin - never run a vehicle up to the max. capacities. This saves the vehicle and, more importantly, your life.

DBCassidy

 

I looked hard at the competition before I bought a prius c. The focus hatch, rio hatch, accenct hatch, versa hatch, sonic hatch, etc. The advertised prices for a no frills sedan are pretty cheap of these models, but when you add the cost of the hatchback $, automatic trans $, pw, pl, cruise, $ etc the prices are pretty close to the cost of a prius c that has all of that standard and has better resale, plus better mpg.

Would I ever buy a brand new car again? Probably not.
Would I ever buy another hybrid? Probably

 

I would definitely buy a hybrid/plug-in hybrid for my next car but whilst I would like a full electric car I don't think the range or recharge time is currently suited to my lifestyle.

 

I would buy another Prius. Would like a Model S, but the Prius can fit into my budget.


DBCassidy

 

Another example:
Cruze Eco is cheaper (abut $5000 cheaper) than the Sonata hybrid:

 

Chevy Cruze is a C segment in Europe. Body of a Vauxhall Astra...
Sonata is a D segment in Europe. Competes against Honda Accord, Toyota Avensis...

$5000 is a reasonable difference in MRSP.

 

And as usual TH is ignoring the data from CR, Edmunds, etc that show the Prius is in fact cheaper to own and operate over time than any of the "cheaper" cars mentioned. Granted average TCO is not the same as an individuals real life costs, but they are, well, average. And they are certainly more informative than looking at just sticker prices, or even sticker plus fuel.

CR 8 year TCO:
Prius C: $34,750
Prius IV: $39,500
Ford Fiesta SES: $41,500
Honda Civic EX: $42,500
Ford Focus SFE: $45,750

Rob

 

...bumped into this from a recent CNCDA Powerpoint presentation (California New Car Dealer Association):

I like comparative numbers like this, because I can do a (Virginia) car tax analysis. Not only is the Energi going to cost you $12,730 more, in some areas around here there could be add'l $2000-$2500 property taxes on the Fusion Energi. That about eats up most of the Federal tax credit.

Now if you live in Wash DC, you save $2000 taxes on the Energi and $1570 on the Hybrid (both tax free in DC). So I revert back to my earlier comment, the cost-benefit consumer calculation is heavily dependent on Federal, state and local tax policy and incentives.

 

Bottom line: Prius: 115.3 cu. ft.
Focus Hatchback: 114.5

Would I take approximately 10,000 dollars in order to give-up 0.8 cu.ft in my car? Heck yeah! (And the poll shows a majority of people agree, prefering a lower-cost gasoline car instead of hybrid.) I am a multi-hybrid owner who recognizes I spent more on my cars than if I bought a nonhybrid