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  1. palmer_md

    palmer_md Junior Member

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    Ok, so i've owned my 2005 Prius since new and it has been an awesome vehicle. It is primarily my vehicle, but once or twice a year my wife takes it if she is going to take a long trip out of town (in an effort to use less gas than her car). Anyhow, I religiously change the oil every 5k miles, and the car has been very reliable, given that these oil changes are about the only thing I've needed to do to the car in 240,000 miles.

    A few weeks ago my wife took the car on a trip she was taking with her girlfriends. They were going from Sacramento to Arcata, and then up the coast route to Portland and then back down I-5 to Sacramento. So I hand her the keys and kiss her goodbye and think nothing of it.

    After her return, my first trip in the car is a long one as I head south to Santa Maria (300+ miles away). The first time I hit a hill on the trip, I get the BIG red triangle, along with a message on the MFD that I could not read quick enough to know what it said. Wow, what was that? I decide I'm going to stop at the next offramp and take a look. I go up another small hill just prior to the off-ramp and again I get the triangle and this time I can read the message..."low oil". Oh wow. I pull off and stop at a gas station and I had to add two quarts of oil to it. I'm late for my meeting and I've got 250+ miles to go. I keep driving south, but wonder how I lost so much oil. I'm also thinking perhaps now I've got too much oil if I was reading the stick improperly. Anyhow, the 41/46 highway between I-5 and I-101 has some steep hills, and I notice that the car has significantly lost power compared to other times crossing. After the meetings and before I head back (next day), I take the car to a quick lube place to have the oil changed. On the drive home the car still shows significantly less power then normal. Oh, and I had just had the oil changed about 1500 miles prior to my wifes trip.

    When I get home I explain to my wife what happened and she said that "yep, that light was going off constantly all the way up to Portland and back". oh boy, now I'm really concerned. Other than power, I did not really notice much else different at that point, but then I started to pay very close attention after my wifes comment about her trip, knowing that she just drove 1000 miles with the low oil light flashing. Second thing that I notice after the power loss, is that I'm now getting about 35 mpg instead of the usual 43 mpg on all my freeway trips to my customers. The next thing is the most concerning, I can now hear valve clattering (or something similar). The engine sounds awful, very loud taping sounds even when lightly loaded, and noticeable inside with the windows up when the engine gets loaded up a bit.

    So now, to my question; can this engine be saved? Is it possible to do a "top end" change to just the cam an valves? Is it better to change the entire engine?

    I'm still driving the car for now, but I expect that it is going to break down any day. I really wanted to keep this car for many more miles...what can I do? What should I do?

    Also, what is the deal with the low oil light? You would think that if it came on it would latch on so that it would stay lit to force you to pay attention and put oil in it. Or at least if it comes on two or three times in one trip it then latches on. It seems like it was only coming on when I was going up hill, and the pickup probably came away from the oil. Unfortunately my wifes trip was very hilly.

    Michael
     
    #1 palmer_md, Jul 20, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  2. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    I read that replacement engines are fairly easy to come by and not expensive. Something like $500. The cylinders/rings are now scored badly, and perhaps the main bearings have suffered as well. The work can be done by any mechanic that can follow the guides, so replacement is probably what you want, to insure a good outcome.

    Your story is all too common, unfortunately. High mileage Prii do consume more oil. Your engine is done, so start looking for a used one.
     
  3. palmer_md

    palmer_md Junior Member

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    Well, $500 is not bad, but that seems to be for a wrecking yard pull. How do I know that the pulled engine does not have similar wear? I tried to search for rebuilt engines and so far only come up with engine builders who do everything...not sure if there is a specific Prius engine builder.
     
  4. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    You don't!

    Wrecking Yard is where you take your chances. Some over here will offer a little guarantee, but again, that depends on who you use.

    Want the full guarantee that the engine you buy is 100%? Then unfortunately you buy new.
     
  5. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    At 240,000 miles and after being run low on oil, the engine is dead. So you'll have to decide how much money you want to invest in repairs. Plan to spend $1K+ just on the labor involved in replacing the engine.

    It is quite reasonable to buy an engine from a lower-miles wrecked Prius, but in exchange for that low price you get to bear the risk of the engine being in unknown condition. The salvage yard will probably guarantee the engine works upon delivery, but the remedy is to refund the money paid for the engine. You get to absorb the labor cost.
     
  6. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    Over 240,000 miles and still the original battery...she has served you very well. Perhaps it is just time to pay your last respects and move on.
     
    CT.Ross likes this.
  7. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    The decision on where to draw the line on repairs should be made before the repairs start. Knowing "this far & no further" makes the decision easier when it's time to sell, donate, or scrap the car.

    I dumped a lot of money into cars that weren't worth it, never again.

    Here's the situation. Car only has 240000 miles on it. Others have 300000 or 400000. $1500 for an engine & I'm good for a while. Then the next thing fails. Well, I just put a $1500 engine in. I might as well fix this so I can get my money's worth. Then, you guessed it, the next thing happens and you justify this repair with the money you already sunk.

    Turn the question around. How much would you pay for a car with 240000 miles on it?

    Cut your losses. Buy a new one. Give the car to someone who can use and appreciate it. Maybe an auto shop class can use it. Maybe there's an organization that can rebuild the car & give it to someone who is trying to get a leg up. Maybe a Prius rebuilder can use it.
     
  8. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    I see a new Craigslist ad: Preowned Prius. Works fine. Strong battery and cold AC. Slight engine noise, but I'm sure it'll go away with oil change. $5000 OBO. Need to sell quick as I'm going out of the country.
     
    Robert Holt and NR427 like this.
  9. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    I wouldn't worry too much about the engine noise. My 2006 is pretty loud when idling, probably due to the same reason as you. But it still runs perfectly, good torque and acceleration. Just keep the oil level topped off and you should be fine.
     
  10. palmer_md

    palmer_md Junior Member

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    If it were just noise I would not be too concerned. It has dropped from 43mpg to 35mpg on my normal routes, I have a VERY noticeable lack of power. Just getting on the freeway is a struggle, and to do so I run 100 battery amps (as shown on the scangauge) for quite a while and I drain the battery completely (as shown on the MFD). So not only am I killing my engine due to friction from the damage, now I'm killing the battery at the same time. It will be interesting to see which one goes first.

    Interesting side notes: cruising at 65 on the highway, the battery can recover in 5 miles or so, at 75 it seems to never catch up, but does not fall behind. Any faster, and I have to pull from the battery and it will eventually "empty out". This is on all the seriously flat highways in the California central valley, so hills are not part of the equation.

    Right now, I'm just driving the car. I figure I'll just drive it 'til it drops (jditid *TM). The day it dies, hand the keys to the tow driver and then have him drop me off at the Toyota dealership.

    I'll post back here after she's gone. I'm driving close to 1000 miles per week this time of year due to my frequent customer visits, so it should not be long.
     
  11. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Check the oil level again and maybe change the spark plugs is you haven't done so
     
  12. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Driving it hard without enough oil probably cooked what oil was left, so yeah take a look at the plugs as JC91006 suggests.

    Try to manage it for a while and see how it progresses. Remember to check the oil level every week now (and top it off often), as it will no doubt use it faster than before.

    A couple of thing you could try to manage it.

    1. Since you haven't really got anything to lose, I'd try a good quality 10w40 oil in it and see if it helps.

    2. Let my prefix this one by stating that I know that MOST oil additives are snake oil junk, but the following product I have used and has friction reducing properties that I totally swear by. Liqui Moly MOS2 - LIQUI MOLY - Motor Oils, Additives, Car Care - Products - MoS2 Anti-Friction

    Don't bother with their other products, just the basic MOS2 is the best thing for a tired engine, and fairly low cost too. Use one full can (300 ml) in the first oil change and then just half a can on subsequent changes.

    3. One final thing. As you've already found, reduced engine power places more strain on the traction battery. You can try to manage this too, firstly by warming the engine for 40 to 50 seconds before driving (trust me this helps) and in particular be trying to ensure the engine is well warmed before you need to make any rapid acceleration (onto a freeway for example) or before any significant hills.

    Trying to use slightly gentler acceleration (where possible) won't hurt either. :)
     
    #12 uart, Jul 22, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2014
  13. palmer_md

    palmer_md Junior Member

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    Thanks guys. Yep, I'm checking the oil every few days at this point, and I've had two oil changes since the incident. I've switched to a high mileage oil instead of the standard oil. I'll check the plugs. I've not done that, and perhaps this will help with the fuel consumption and power. The engine tapping is so bad, I don't hold much hope that I can extend this for too long, but you never know...it might keep running for quite a while. The battery is my concern at this point as well. As noted, it has taken up a larger share of the work in getting the car moving, and I feel it is not going to be up to this task for too long given its age.
     
  14. palmer_md

    palmer_md Junior Member

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    Update for those who are interested. I'm up to 247k and the car is actually getting better. The battery stays charged better and is not getting depleted so bad on the freeway onramps. My mileage which fell from 43 to 35 has now gone up to 38 mpg. It seems to have stabilized there, so I think there won't be any more improvements, but I'm happy to report that the car is still running. What an amazing car to take such abuse and it keeps on ticking (literally). It has noticeably more power then just after the incident, but less than prior to it. I'm happy to keep just driving it, and it will be interesting to see just how long it will last.

    I've not tried any oil additives, but I did change to a Pennzoil "high mileage oil". I bought new plugs, but have not installed them yet. I started to do it one evening and then realized it is not as easy as some of my previous cars. I needed to take the fuse panel off and also needed an extension for my spark plug socket wrench.
     
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  15. CBarr31

    CBarr31 Active Member

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    Sorry to hear about the oil consumption and potential damage issue. Unfortunately as Patrick noted this is a very common theme with high mileage Prii. Below are the 2 most useful threads I follow on the subject. If you haven't read them already take a look.

    2008 Prius - burning oil at 135,000 miles | PriusChat

    Burning oil at same rate regardless of oil thickness --- What does it tell us? | PriusChat

    The high mileage oil you switched to probably has some cleaners and additives in it that are helping the engine get back to wear it was. Although it will never be as good as it was something like SeaFoam or MMO may help in the "cleaning" process. Just remember when adding these it will thin the oil so will probably need topped off quicker. I am assuming you are topping off between oil changes.

    Keep the RPM's under 4,000 and if you can find it run some pure E0 gas in your car. That is what has actually helped Ema's oil consumption the most out of all the additives I have tried so far. I know you are probably SOL in Cali though.

    Good luck!!!!
    Chris
     
  16. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ...there is good spark plug DIY video on YouTube. With that video I found Gen2 plug replacement to be fairly "easy" although at 137k the plug threads were gunked up heavily and they fought me the whole way out like pulling in a 20-lb fish on 12-lb test line. I though something was wrong at first.
     
  17. jqmello

    jqmello Junior Member

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    I had a low oil situation that I only noticed at an overdue oil change (7500 vs 5000), low 2.5 quarts, fit the drained oil into a 1 qt bottle.
    I learned from replies to that thread that the "low oil" light is only triggered when there is basically no oil at all left in the engine.
    Check your oil for metallic fines, it will tell you how badly the bearings are wearing. Research the yards to see what the used engine prices are like. My area they're $200-$700 before installation. Often the scrapyard will have a picture of the donor vehicle as it came off the wrecker. Ideal would be a rear-end collision, but the engine's tucked away enough that even a front-ender shouldn't have damaged the block or internals of the ICE.
     
  18. palmer_md

    palmer_md Junior Member

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    Final update. The car died today. Actually the engine is still running, but due to the reduced power, it was putting extra work on the battery and the battery is what finally gave up. It started acting up and throwing codes about the high voltage battery pack. Then on the way home from a customer the current in/out of the battery went to zero and all sorts of buzzers and alarms went off. The engine went to 4000+ rpm even when there was zero throttle, and if you applied throttle it went up to the near 5000 rpm limit. I drove about 30-40 miles like this and finally the 12v battery gave up and that is what stopped the car. Without the high voltage pack charging the 12v it was just a matter of time before it died. Fortunately it died literally as I was driving past the entrance to a rest stop, so I pulled in and parked, then the next day came back and towed the car home. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with this car now, but it needs a new motor and a new battery pack if it is to ever see the road again. I'm going to mull it over for a few weeks before I make any decisions.

    I don't have the exact number written down, but mileage is about 259,000 miles, so I did get 19,000 miles extra out of the car after the oil episode...pretty good.



    [​IMG]
     
  19. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Sorry about the Prius...nice towing wheels