What percentage of Prius drivers actually think about the driving experience?

Hi Robert,

Since you asked ...
I am a 80:20 kind of guy. I am happy to put in 20% more effort for 80% more gain:

Less than 5 miles each way and decent weather: bicycle!
Over 200 miles: train!
Over 500 miles: plane!

Under 50 miles but more than 5: EV! using clean energy
Over 50 miles but under 200 miles: Rented petrol car

I imagine this would fit way over 90% of the populace quite nicely, albeit with the occasional annoyance. The American problem is the widespread tendency to waste 200% for a 10% incremental comfort or convenience.

Sorry, no plot at all. Just the tendency of most people to be short sighted and too self-centered for their own good, let alone future generations or their neighbors.

 

Well, your points are certainly valid if the discussion is what cars bring to the table and how they influence our daily lives. I'd agree with you 100% there, but the discussion started with a blanket condemnation of the car for the ills of society. IMHO, we inflict those ills upon ourselves when we don't exercise self-control. A car doesn't make us do things that are unhealthy, they just make such choices easier. I just thought blaming the car was going overboard is all. I didn't mean to offend anyone, but obviously I did, sigh.......hence the thin skin comment.

How do you go grocery shopping on a bicycle? With 2 young kids?
How do you ride a bicycle 5 miles to work in 110 degree heat and arrive suitable for work?
How would you suggest taking a train from Phoenix to Flagstaff, the Grand Canyon, Tucson or many other places where no passenger trains exist?
And why take a plane over 500 miles to LA, San Diego, Las Vegas, etc., when it costs more for 2 (or more) people than it would in a car, especially a fuel-efficient car like the Prius? And then be without the bicycle, etc.?

I agree that we Americans waste a lot, but at least some of that has to do with vacations and the fact that the US is so much more spread out than individual countries in Europe. I loved being able to go to so many places in Germany and Italy in so much shorter distances than here in the US, but that's not where I live and I still want to enjoy what the US has to offer. I'd be more prone to blame the cheap price of gas here than the car.

My daughter is the poster child for what you are saying and I've tired to get through to her to no avail. She'll run up to Walmart 3 times in the same day and nothing I say makes her change, so I've given up. And, you're right, the car enables her to do that, but SHE'S still to blame, not the car.

 

I'd say just don't let it get too polarized. Do small things to reduce your usage. Not so much that you're inconveniencing yourself unduly...

We occasionally err on the arduous side, take on a "short walk" to get a few things, that turns into sweaty march, lol. But that's good for you, once in a while.

 

October through April, I do just that, for the exercise. At times, including summer, I even walk the 4 miles after dropping the car off for service and back to pick it up. I just can't see doing that every time I want to go somewhere, it's just not practical. And I just don't like painting everyone with the same brush. Maybe I just took a certain post too literally.

 

You may want to sit down before you read on ...

I take a backpack.
I also adapt a little to make it work: I shop more than once a week, and if needed I might ask my wife to take a backpack, too.
It also helps that we do not eat much processed food so the volumes we carry are considerably reduced. Think: no cans, no cartons. We also try to avoid typical plastics packaging.

 

No need for me to sit down, that's pretty much what I expected you'd say.

I did the bicycle with the basket on the back thing for quite awhile, but then changed jobs and started picking things up on the way home. And please don't get me wrong. I'm not criticizing you or your beliefs, I just don't buy that the car is the bane of human existence. I agree that we are a wasteful nation, but I believe that's a culture/education problem. The first time I went to Germany and England, I was impressed with the different attitude towards so many things over there, so I get where you're coming from. I just don't think the picture is as dire as you seem to want to paint it.

 

You are a bit confused, and your projection is not going to work. It is your Ayn Randian beliefs up for display; I am just pointing out what is.

• I say lung cancer is prevalent where tobacco is prevalent. You say tobacco is fine; we just have to educate people how to use it safely.
• I say mass murders of children in schools occurs where there is wide availability of machine guns. You say guns are safe; we just have to keep killers out of schools.

There is always an action and an agent. Your political indoctrination blinds you to RISK.

 

Wow! That is just so wrong and you are assuming way too much in the way of politics. I abhor tobacco because of all the problems associated with it and I don't like guns, at all. However, I don't BLAME the tobacco or gun for people making stupid and dangerous decisions. I do support individual rights, but only to a degree. And while I know the name Ayn Rand, I have no idea what she's about unless I look it up. Even then, I'm not sure what she's about. I also think capitalism controls too much of our society and too many benefit from it too much, like highly paid CEOs, athletes, actors, etc., but the alternatives control even more and unfairly penalize those who work hard to make their lives more comfortable, etc.

But that's okay, just one more over-generalization that you're entitled to make in a free society. I guess if we don't all ride bicycles, we're the problem. IMHO, that's a pretty myopic view of the world and its problems. I do have to agree with one thing though, the world would be quite different if we didn't have cars. Whether it would be better or not is yet another no-win debate for either side. I see you have a car, so it must be okay for some people to have them.

At any rate, I'm done with the "discussion", it's off-topic and this is not the appropriate forum. Plus, we're not going to get anywhere. You want to label me and I'm just trying to figure why you hate cars so much yet frequent a car forum.

 

I don't hate cars, tobacco, or guns.

I do recognize their risks, and their place in a reasonably healthy society. E.g.,
Tobacco as a ceremonial agent causes no harm and is important to the people who use it, so by all means.
Guns are an unfortunate but necessary arm of a military.
Cars are interesting devices and the Prius is an important advance (thus my participation here.) That does not change the obvious fact that widespread over reliance on cars has very negative side effects.

 

Speaking of which, I was driving my Prius C back to Long Island from Massachusetts this afternoon and stopped at a rest area on the Merritt Parkway. The stops on this parkway are are all very tight on land area so there's only limited parking; the two spaces nearest the building were marked "Fuel Efficient Cars Only" and the next two were "Multiple Occupancy Vehicles Only". I parked in the first Efficient space; in the next one was a Honda Accord, and while I was sitting in the car a large SUV with a single very large occupant parked in the first Multiple space. There were several unrestricted spaces open at the time.

I was going to take a photo, but the SUV guy was *much* bigger than me and I thought better of it.

 

Um, the electric bicycles we bought in Germany for 600 Euro extended the useful range of our bicycling to 50-60 kilometers (we never did manage to deplete the 10 ah 36-volt lithium-ion batteries in ours (yet), so muscle-electric hybrid is also feasible . My nephew used my bike to commute from suburbs to downtown Hamburg to work and found he would do it without sweating heavily which made that commute feasible also.
I would argue about the carbon footprint of taking a plane vs two or more people in a Prius . Somewhere in an old Priuschat forum a energy graph compared planes, trains, and a benchmark Prius at 50 mpg. The commercial jet was at 70mpg per person mile equivalent IIRC, but per person mile if you put two persons in the Prius, your per person mile mpg is 100. Thus DW and I driving the Prius entails a lower carbon footprint than taking a commercial flight to get, say, to Alaska!

 

Hybrid electric bicycles are pretty nifty to be sure. I bought one some 6 years ago and liked it a lot as a way to 'levelize' the hilly area I lived in then. When I say 5 miles each way, I am trying to include just about every American, no matter how fat and out of shape. I realize that the top 20% can happily go quite a bit further.

Right about carbon footprints and plane Vs Prius. I picked my somewhat arbitrary thresholds to try and take time of travel into consideration as well.

 

Nice tent. Very creative.

 

Don't look now, but I

I thought it was squatters.

 

That is such an appropriate one for this discussion!
"Poison Sky" was the episode and the aliens were the Sontarans.
What the cars had been programmed to do is to start emitting noxious fumes that would terraform the planet (really just the atmosphere).
It was a wonderful poke at what we are already doing, just on a slower scale than the hour they had in the show.

 

That was the Sontorans.

 

Getting back to the main idea of the thread. I have been a car enthusiast for my entire life, not big gas guzzling V8s but European machines, Peugeot and Citroen. When time came to take the load off my current Citroen I used the same rationale that we use when we buy appliances. Environmental performance is top. It was my first new car and I had been interested in a Prius for a while, even went to the dealer in 2004 when the Gen 2 came out to see what this hybrid thing was all about and he gave me a test drive. Fast forward to 2012 and a squeezed past (literally) all the hideous Landcruisers, Klugers (Highlanders in the US) to talk to the sales guy. They didn't have a Prius for me to look at so the first time I drove it was when I picked it up.

It steers and handles very well I think. The transmission system is the first thing that hits you, so smooth. Then the brakes, they feel almost as good as on the Citroen and certainly heaps better than the hair trigger brakes on current european machines like my daughters VW Golf. Very progressive. My daughters VW is a Bluemotion so has the stop start like a lot of new cars. 2 problems. When the traffic inches forward, you have to start the motor to move, not the Prius of course. Then the A/C. On the Golf it stops when the engine stops, not the Prius. In traffic you are driving a car for today or yesterdays machines. The Prius is on a different level, the car for today, so good. The other nice thing to have in traffic is a good stereo system. The Prius system is very good, great sound and even depth in the stereo soundstage - well done JBL.

Then the interior. I didn't like the centre console when it came out but after using it It has grown on me. For a compact car it is very roomy, space in the back more than adequate for my 192cm frame to sit behind me driving. Seats are quite comfortable, the driving position for a tall guy is very good. It would work very well as a family car I think, space for plenty of stuff in the back in the underfloor trays etc.

The only bad thing is the ride comfort. Toyota are not alone here, but comfort in the front seats is acceptable, in the back not acceptable. I am spoiled by my other cars, probably the best in ride comfort, but there have been plenty of steel spring cars that ride acceptably, however I think Toyota should look at paying Citroen royalties and use the hydropnuematic system. The advantage is the self levelling so angle of attack is held constant to the benefit of aerodynamics. They already go part way with the fully powered braking system. To have a Prius that rode as well as a Citroen would be approaching perfection.

I drive mine in Eco mode all the time. This makes the throttle about as sensitive as my old Cit. The power available when needed is very adequate, it is probably the fastest car we own. It copes with city traffic with ease. The only annoyance is the droning engine noise on long hills etc. But probably the best thing is it drives different to other machines. I really enjoyed getting to know it. I applaud Toyota for putting a car like this on the market that is different. If we only accept what we know, how will we advance.

 

I just want to post on this thread so I can follow it.

 

Answering the original premise of this thread:

I've driven an Elantra from LA to Jacksonville, FL twice, back and forth. Once through route 10 and also route 40. I've actually made one of those segments in two days. Was the car comfortable? Not especially. Was it serviceable and did it get great gas mileage for a compact car? absolutely. To me, it was just a car (the GF's).

I also ride a Harley Davidson Ultra Glide. I used to put about 12000 miles a year on it. I've ridden from LA to Sturgis and went through Las Vegas while it was 115. (and that wasn't the highest temperature on the road yet). I could have ridden a Honda Goldwing and been in more comfort and near silence, but that wasn't me. I enjoy being part of my vehicle.

I used to drive a Toyota Tundra for 12 years and 170,000 miles for that period. It drives like a truck, but it's been pretty much everywhere with me. Yellowstone, several times, Grand Canyon and Yosemite. It hauled all my gear with no complaint. My only complaint about it was the gas I had to pay to keep it running.

Now I've only got just under 2000 miles with my new Prius, but it rides and handles great for my expectations. Been to the high desert and been to the beach with it. Comfortable and GREAT mileage. Easy to park. Costs me about a third the expense of gas per mile than my truck. The electronic goodies it has keeps me entertained. I actually enjoy driving to work, which is downhill to Pasadena by picking a truck and just getting sucked along. It's become a game to me. I'm loving this car right now.

If I want something truly exciting then I'd ride my Harley there. Noisy and bumpy as it is...

When i need the hauling ability, then the truck still gets taken out about once a week... Just can't let her go.

 

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