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True? Toyota just killed the PiP?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by DavidA, Jul 27, 2014.

  1. Stevevee

    Stevevee Active Member

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    Not sure if you've caught yourself reading, but you're spouting demands and being quite arrogant, towards people that already have hybrid vehicles and/or plug in models. I've stated my position that I think Tesla is an awesome company, plug in hybrids are great, and eve's may very well be enormous in the future. Not good enough for you? Tough tookies my man. Take that show on the road and watch people flee.
     
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Nothing said was meant to inflame - nor was anything directed at any one person. The OP relates to the notion that plugin's don't cut it for Toyota ... even as plugin users not only find 'em quite workable but preferable to unaffordable & non-competing hydrogen. Going down the hydrogen path - of course Toyota has to slam plugins because plugin's not only compete, they in fact surpass hydrogen - based off user's expectations and satisfaction and affordability . With limited resources it's important for innovators to choose the best path to sink tons of R&D money. So when folks state how present technology just can't work when in fact it does for many satisfied customers you can pretty much guess that you may receive contrary opinions, based on folks opposing motives (present day convenience vs legacy / future issues) - that's all. Peace and love
    .
     
    #62 hill, Jul 28, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
  3. Stevevee

    Stevevee Active Member

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    My personal opinion is that plug ins make far more sense than an ev, right now. Without the tax credit, sales would be far lower than they are now. When looking at the range of the Leaf especially, it's quite limiting for an expensive econobox. Gas Hybrids and plug ins make by far the most sense now, and probably will for some time.

    I'm surprised as well that Toyota went with fuel cells and ditched ev's. Time will tell if they know things most don't. Many are placing some huge bets on Musk and his Gigafactory.
     
  4. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    Does this mean I should get the extended warranty? :rolleyes:
     
  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Unsubsidied the 60kwh tesla s is around $70K, the same as the toyota fcv. We don't know exactly how that toyota is outfitted, but the tesla is a full blown sports sedan. The price if we include fuel is less than most similar sports sedans, which is why they are giving lexus headaches. It is certainly not over priced after the government kicks in their subsidies.

    Well you can keep your old prius, use anouther car in the household, fly, or rent a car if the supercharger network is too much of a pain for you. It seems fairly well thought out.

    It is a sports sedan, if you want to pay the same and live in LA for more prius like performance you could buy the fcv, but don't drive it 275 miles in any direction, you won't have enough fuel to make it home. Now there are lots of good choices for less luxurious plug-ins.
    US Electric Vehicle Market Share - Model By Model Breakdown
    [​IMG]
    plug-ins are a fast growing segment.

    accelerates like a porsche, gets 700 miles on electricity, and you think they can sell that for $50K? That doesn't make much sense.

    Hopefully the next prius phv will be more to your liking. Toyota is not canceling it, but the EV bashing is sure to hurt sales.
     
  6. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Nothing some distributed PV cannot handle.

    Kidding aside, the power companies love EVs, because they tend to charge at night when they have under-utilized capacity.
     
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  7. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    How so ?
     
  8. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    I'll preface this with it being MY situation, others may have different positions.
    I found previously I was not willing to travel as I simply didn't want to expend the valuable resources to do so.
    With the much lower level of resources now required, especially in CA where some supercharger stations generate solar power or use batteries to use off peak power, I am much more likely to travel.
     
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  9. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Ah. At least now CA knows who to blame for their skyrocketing consumption: the EV freeloaders hopping the border from MN ;)
     
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  10. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Roflmao!
    No freeloading here, Tesla just paid the bill rather than me. And I added to the local economy by spending my vacation dollars there!
    Everybody wins(y)
     
  11. Troy Heagy

    Troy Heagy Member

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    No it does NOT "say so here". Nice ____ing..... even I fell for your fishing & baiting. ;) :) :D

    I just drove a fuel cell SUV from Hyundai and was unimpressed. The thing has so many fans running it is noisier than a regular engine. Also it was sluggish (0-60 in 13 seconds) and just boring to drive. I'd rather own a Real EV with plenty of acceleration & silence when stopped. Also a Real EV can run off any fuel source: Coal or natural gas or hydro or nuclear or solar.
     
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  12. Troy Heagy

    Troy Heagy Member

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    The easiest way to eliminate new companies or competiton is to bribe politicians/unelected bureaucrats to pass laws that disadvantage the new guy. They do it with natural milk by arresting Amish farmers for selling milk direct from their cows to neighbors. They do with with organic vegetables & eggs by forcing farmers to get a license (and if the farmer does not, they burn his veggies and smash his organic eggs). Toyota, Volkswagen, GM, et cetera do not want a new car company to compete against, so they've all decided to tell CARB that electric cars are a deadend, and hydrogen is the future.

    EVs only get half the tax rebate as hydrogen cars. EVs get fewer ZEV credits. And I expect that EVs will lose their carpool access, because it takes more than 15 minutes to refuel (CARB requirement). All laws pushed by the older corporations in order to block the new company & harm it.
     
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  13. Troy Heagy

    Troy Heagy Member

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    380-260 == empty battery == need a recharge of 120 miles. You can do that in only 15 minutes so it's hardly a burden. The car would be ready to go before you come back from the toilet
     
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  14. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    CARB is pro hydrogen all by itself. Companies get into the act when they sue CARB.
     
  15. Stevevee

    Stevevee Active Member

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    I was looking at the route, there are two Tesla Supercharging stations well South of where I'm heading. Although there is a Toyota station on the way
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Just think, Hyundai's advancement for fuel cells was eliminating the noisy air compressor.
     
  17. Troy Heagy

    Troy Heagy Member

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    Things don't happen in a vacuum. EVs and FCVs used to be treated equally by the CARB (as zero-emission vehicles and equal credits). Until this year. The carmakers pressured the board/lawmakers to make changes where EVs only get half the credits/money. The *appearance* of CARB suddenly turning pro-hydrogen is really 11 servants kowtowing to their masters' wishes in order to secure funding. (Hint: We live in a state of, by, and for the corporations..... they fund the elections, they write the laws, and they lobby to get them passed.)

    Well whatever. Having driven both an FCV and EV, I think the FCV has minimal future. For one thing you have to sign an expensive 500/month lease. The FCV runs off natural gas (fossil fuel) instead of California's clean hydro/solar electricity. It produces a lot of waste heat (inefficient). And it felt very sluggish (13 second acceleration).
     
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  18. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Most of the CA grid is NG
     
  19. DianneWhitmire

    DianneWhitmire High PRIUStess

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    Only the EV is going, but that's not news. That was always the plan. Build 2600, and end production.
     
  20. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    2600 was the number - but what I'm wondering is - did toyota pick that number based on how long it would take the hydrogen lobby to bend the rules to favor the fuel cell ...