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ATF fluid changes ARE Required.

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Bill Norton, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. gliderman

    gliderman Active Member

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    Oh no! Not copper. Copper will eat aluminum. Never put copper and aluminum together. Always check the Anodic index before mixing metals.
     
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  2. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    The transaxle housing is aluminum? OK, so not a good idea for copper washers due to potential for galvanic corrosion. Check.
     
  3. Feri

    Feri Active Member

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    Actually the Toyota University training manual recommends change at 100,000 miles and 50,000 there after. I don't know why Toyota dealers have been told to discourage it. Toyota does regard 100,000 miles as "lifetime".
     
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    ^ Even 100,000 miles, then 50,000 miles, flies in the face of what DIY owners are finding: that the first change should be sooner than later. I don't think I could have lived with myself, letting that stuff sit in there for either of those numbers. For that matter, with our mileage, not sure if we'll ever GET to 100,000 miles.

    My attitude, and it only cost me $40, was to get the first batch out of there at end of year one. I let two years go by before the next change, and that stuff was noticeably cleaner, really overkill.
     
  5. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    Sure...they want you to buy a new car at 100,000 miles. Gotta feed corporate and the sales men too.

    With hind sight and knowing what I know now, I say change it first time very early, say 5K to 10K miles on the Prius. Get rid of the "known" overly contaminated fluid just like changing the motor oil first time early. That is my opinion and recommendation however, I am not going to get into a lube war with anyone...including penny pinchers and environmentalists. I've been turning wrenches to long to listen to that nonsense.

    By the way, my Dealership parts guy throws in the washers for free when I buy fluid for changes, oil and ATF. Oh well.
     
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  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah, either way, it's peanuts. What I keep thinking of, every time the discussion turns to washer costs:

    Up here there's a phenomena at some major intersections, panhandlers camped out on the median. Likely universal? We used to ignore the guys, but I do not know, mellowing or what, these days we're giving a loonie or two (one or two dollars). One guy in particular. I mean, they look like ex-roofers, having a rough life, and getting rougher. Not a lot of money.
     
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  7. Sierra Mark

    Sierra Mark Junior Member

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    OK, now you've got me worried about my tricycle. I forgot to lube the front wheel at 30,000 miles. Toyota did not forget or "drop the ball" on Prius transmission ATF changes. The maintenance requirements for the Prius are consistent with other Toyota cars. My Sienna maintenance requirements for example call for the transmission fluid level to be checked every 30,000 miles. Up to 120,000 miles it does not recommend an ATF change. It does however recommend changing the 4WD transfer case and differential oil every 15,000 miles under severe driving conditions. I'm sure Toyota is fully aware that the ATF is degraded over time and mileage but still figures frequent changes are not necessary. That being said, yes I have changed my 2010 Prius transmission ATF at 31,000 miles because I plan on keeping the car for 10 years or longer. The job is considerably more difficult than changing the engine oil for several reasons. Instead of just raising the front of the car, I had to raise the rear and level it out (what a pain). The trans oil plugs were on so tight it took my breaker bar and a lot of swearing to get them loose. Finally my funnel and hose system leaked when filling the trans and made an ugly mess.
     
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  8. our1vue

    our1vue Member

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    In the next week, I'm going to change my trans fluid. I'm hoping others that have done it before can offer some advice to a first timer.
    I have a 2012, so I have the underside panel to remove. I know there are some 10 mm bolts that have to be removed. Does any one know
    how much torque to use to put these back on ? Also there are lots of body clips that hold on this underside panel. Does anyone know an easy way to remove the center plug from these clips ? After removing the 4 for the oil change door flap, my fingers are killing me. I'm not looking forward to taking off a bunch of them. Thanks for any help.
     
  9. gliderman

    gliderman Active Member

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    I buy new clips/fasteners off ebay. 50 at a time. They are cheap and then I just rip them out. I dont have a single original fastener on the under engine cover. But you can buy screw fasteners that are easy to remove and replace. They are a little more expensive. I dont recall the price.

    The screws/bolts dont need to be tightened too much. They wont stop or get tight. So when you feel like they are snug, then stop.
     
  10. walter Lee

    walter Lee Hypermiling Padawan

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    At 50,800 miles, my local Toyota Service center recommended that I changing my transaxle (CVT fluid) because the fluid color had turned darker. The quoted price was $98 - I've got some rewards dollars on my Toyota Visa card that could pay for it but I declined at the time because I only had time to do the scheduled oil change - now I 'm thinking about going back and rescheduling my Prius to get the CVT fluid change now - but I'm doing some research to see if there is anything else I show check for or be concerned about....

    Walter
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    For the 10 mm (socket size) bolts, I'm sure there is a torque value, but I would not get excited about it. Just reinstall them with a firm twist.

    For the fasteners, there's about 14 I think. I take the thing off with every oil change, and a couple of transaxle fluid changes so far. It takes under 10 minutes, both ways. There are a couple fasteners, in the vicinity of the "maintenance flap" that are grey coloured and definitely different in size from the rest. And within the rest there might be some subtle difference (length?) but I've given up on trying to keep them organized. With the two grey, larger ones, put a bit of white-out on the caps and the adjacent shield, as a reminder.

    As far as taking out the fasteners, a narrow flat blade screw driver, and more effective, a paint can opener, are helpful for getting them out. And before reinstalling them, wash them with soapy water, to float the grit/grime out of them. It helps to keep them from seizing.

    Here's a visual aid for the paint can fastener. Very hand for levering up the center cap:

    paint can opener.jpg
     
  12. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    The fill and drain bolt torque spec is 29 ft lbs

    SCH-I535
     
  13. NutzAboutBolts

    NutzAboutBolts Senior Member

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    Here's a video if you need help :p
     
  14. Feri

    Feri Active Member

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  15. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    If you just want to get the ATF changed to be good to your transaxle and not Big Deal it,,,

    Open only the oil change flap, use a 18" extension for the allen socket, let a little of the ATF get on the belly cover near the square hole where most of it flows out to your drain pan, and use a little Brakleen to clean off the small wet spot. Reach in there with paper towels if you really hate them wet spots!

    Reuse the dang aluminum sealing washers. Do you really think bad things will happen if you reuse them? They are soft aluminum.

    This way you're only buying 4 qts. of (hopefully) quality ATF.
    And you're taking the minimum time to do this job. Do it at your next engine oil change and your car will love you !!!

    Then go fire up the grill in the back yard to celebrate!
     
    #355 Bill Norton, Aug 10, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2014
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  16. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    I received the aluminum crush washers I ordered today. Same dimensions, 18mm ID x 24mm OD x 2mm thickness.

    The bulk washers are flat, like they are sawn off the end of tubing. Whereas the oem washers look like they are punched out from flat sheet with a press, leaving some beveled-like edges:

    oem washer on the left:

    [​IMG]

    Over analyzing the oem washer makes me think that the bevel on half of the "surface face" of the oem washer may be beneficial for sealing. The fill and drain bolts aren't highly torqued (29 lb-ft), so the force on a 3mm face would be more likely to crush and flatten into any irregularities in the surface of the pan vs the 6mm face of the non oem washers.

    I'm going to use a Dremel to replicate the bevel on the surface of the oem washers.

    SCH-I535
     
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  17. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    yeah, I would call that "over analyzing".

    It's a flat sealing surface. It's not Rocket Surgery. Steel surface/Aluminum surface/something to fill the micro gaps.
    Back in the day they'd use a piece of cut out cereal box and get on with their lives.
     
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  18. Feri

    Feri Active Member

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    Yeah but that was when they had real cardboard!;)
     
  19. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    The bevel has nothing to do with it. Taking a dremel to a washer would surely make it leak. Its just a washer. Leave it alone. There's no crushing involved it just makes the sealing area wider.
    I have changed the trans fluid 3 times on my car and has the regular original washer and does not leak a drop.
     
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  20. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    I couldn't get my car level with a pair of ramps, jackstands, and a floor jack.

    Question: If I jack the front end up, remove under carriage covers, drain transaxle fluid, then replace drain bolt. Can I then place the fill hose from a funnel into the transaxle fill hole, lower the front end to level, then fill the transaxle, then raise the front end up, and remove the fill tube from the fill hole without losing any of the transaxle fluid in the process of raising the front end? I'm hoping the fill hole is in the front side of the transaxle housing and raising the front of the car will cause the fluid level to tilt back below the edge of the open fill hole. Is this possible?

    SCH-I535