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ICE running when stopped

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by DanT, Aug 17, 2014.

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  1. DanT

    DanT Junior Member

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    Hello,

    I've received the mini VCI already and I've managed to install it and connect it. There are a lot of parameters there.
    Can anybody tell me what to look at ? No error codes but I just started the car for 10 minutes.
    I suppose the best is to watch the parameters from "engine and ACT" after driving 30 minutes , then parking and the ICE is on (my problem). But what parameters shall I watch most ?

    regards
    dan
     
    #21 DanT, Aug 25, 2014
  2. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    To start, I would be curious about all the temperatures in the system: Engine temp, the two inverters, the 12V converter, MG1, MG2, HV battery upper and lower. Check them at start up, and after a drive.

    Also, the 12V system voltage. And anything related to the temperatures in the exhaust system. (not sure if you have a catalytic converter).
     
    #22 nh7o, Aug 26, 2014
  3. DanT

    DanT Junior Member

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    Hello nh7o,

    please see some values taken after a drive, car parked, while ICE was running:

    coolant temp - 93 C
    intake air - 46 C
    ambient temp - 24 C
    initial engine coolant temp - 45.6 C
    initial intake coolant temp - 41.2 C
    catalyst temp B1S1 - 184.2 C
    catalyst temp B1S2 - 238.5 C
    inverter temp MG1 - 54 C
    inverter temp MG2 - 54 C
    motor temp MG1 - 51 C
    motor temp MG2 - 52 C
    converter temp - 54 C
    temp of Batt TB1 - 37.8 C
    temp of Batt TB2 - 40.7 C
    temp of Batt TB3 - 39.7 C
    battery voltage - 13.5 V
    MAF - 1.67 gm/sec

    Please tell me if I am missing anything.

    Dan
     
    #23 DanT, Aug 28, 2014
  4. DanT

    DanT Junior Member

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    I also recorder values after engine has stopped idleing (after about 15 - 20 minutes of running when parked). I noticed only one value that is very different from the moment the engine was running:

    catalyst temp B1S1 - 397.2 C (instead of 184.2 C - very big difference)

    Dan
     
    #24 DanT, Aug 28, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2014
  5. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    The B1S1 sensor is for the Air/Fuel mixture, and it is a heated component, so it is expected to be hot. However I do not know what is the normal temperature, and the service manual does not say (or I can't find it).

    I also wonder about the air intake temperature. It is much hotter than ambient, but I have never looked at this parameter. I would think it should be closer to ambient, at least while driving.

    The other temperatures look OK. Since the car is not throwing codes, I am out of guesses. It may be that the Engine Control Module is at fault. It would be possible to try a used ECM, but that might be a lot of work for nothing.

    Hopefully some of the others here can chime in on this.
     
    #25 nh7o, Aug 28, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2014
  6. johnjohnchu

    johnjohnchu Active Member

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    According to my Prius mechanic, constant ICE running when stopped, even without any error code, is indicative of the HV battery going bad.
     
    #26 johnjohnchu, Apr 17, 2015
  7. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    I emphatically disagree with your mechanic. If there is no error code, your battery is within specs. There could be numerous reasons why your ICE is running while stopped
    1) battery is low and needs charged
    2) heater is on
    3) Your not in mode S4 yet
    4) Engine/cat converter is not warmed up
     
    #27 usnavystgc, Apr 17, 2015
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  8. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    I had this strange episode about a month ago, it was about 90 degrees outside. I would think everything was baking hot, no need to warm up. I had the AC blasting on high and while stopped the ICE would kick on even when I had 5 bars showing on my MFD SOC. I was quite confused as I can't remember it ever doing that.
     
    #28 JC91006, Apr 17, 2015
  9. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    Mine has once or twice - and that's in the UK where 90f is rare.

    If the battery is hot then the engine will run to power the a/c (the simple explanation). The a/c can draw about 4kw on full.
     
    #29 GrumpyCabbie, Apr 17, 2015
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    are we responding to a 9 month old thread?
     
    #30 bisco, Apr 17, 2015
  11. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    That makes perfect sense. The battery is too hot
     
    #31 JC91006, Apr 17, 2015
  12. DanT

    DanT Junior Member

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    Thank you.

    Please tell me, the temperature of the battery is showed if I plug in the mini VCI ?
    What parameter shall I watch, and what is the normal temperature for it ?

    Regards,
     
    #32 DanT, Dec 5, 2015
  13. DanT

    DanT Junior Member

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    Thank you.

    maybe these 3 values are the temperature of the battery ?

    temp of Batt TB1 - 37.8 C
    temp of Batt TB2 - 40.7 C
    temp of Batt TB3 - 39.7 C

    obtained in August 2014, while the car was parked after a trip, with the engine running. But for sure the fan was not spinning with high speed.
     
    #33 DanT, Dec 5, 2015
  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Very likely. There are 3 sensors along the battery, and the middle one tends to be hotter.

    FWIW, if you have a ScanGuageII, you can add XGauge programming that will display any of the 3 sensors temp reading (middle one, number 2, is best to read, since it's hottest), also what speed the battery fan is running (believe it's either 0 or 1 through 6?).
     
    #34 Mendel Leisk, Dec 5, 2015
  15. DanT

    DanT Junior Member

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    Ok. If this is the termperature of the battery, is it high enough to make the ICE running while car is stopped ?
    But I have to mention that at the moment I read the temperatures mentioned, the AC was off.

    GrumpyeCabbie, will the ICE run if the battery is hot, even if the AC is turned off ?

    Regards,
     
    #35 DanT, Dec 6, 2015
  16. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    Mine did once on a hot (for the uk lol) day after about 8 hours of hard taxi driving - accelerate, brake, accelerate, brake etc. The engine revved away at about 2k rpm and battery assistance was minimal. It cooled down after about 30 minutes and started work as usual. it worried me at the time thinking damage had been done, and it may have reduced the lifetime of the battery, but the car still worked as usual and did for years afterwards. There were no warning lights. The car seems to look after itself quite well.

    One thing to be aware of is passengers bloking the rear HV battery vent. They may say they weren't, or didn't, but often an arm or coat can inadvertantly cover it causing issues.

    If you haven't had the car long, you might want to check the HV battery fan. Sometimes they can get blocked with hair, fur, dust depending on previous use or if the previous owner had dogs in the car.
     
    #36 GrumpyCabbie, Dec 6, 2015
  17. DanT

    DanT Junior Member

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    Problem solved !

    Not sure what was exactly, but one of the below, mentioned by user Alexeft:

    "Check spark plugs, air filter, clean maf sensor, throttle body. Also there is a collar where the air filter housing mounts to the intake. Is it tight ?"

    I asked the service to do those and now the engine is stopping when the car is not moving and even at low speeds, same as in the first years.

    Same 12 volt battery.

    Happy New Year !
     
    #37 DanT, Dec 22, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
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  18. johnnyb588

    johnnyb588 Member

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    Glad you figured it out (sort of)! (y) *Makes personal note to follow Alexeft's advice in the future*
     
    #38 johnnyb588, Dec 22, 2015
  19. DanT

    DanT Junior Member

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    I did what you say and it's ok now ! Thank you !
     
    #39 DanT, Dec 22, 2015
  20. DanT

    DanT Junior Member

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    I am coming back on same issue.

    When I left the car in service and asked to check/clean what alexeft told me (written above) the cylinder rings have been replaced in the same session.

    The quick story about the replacement of cylinder rings is this: I drove some time with low oil level and the triangle sign was flashing in some curves or sudden brakes (the oil was moving in the bath and activating this low oil level - or low oil pressure not sure). It took quite long until I realised what oil level is the problem, monitored in the next months the oil consumption, and it was about 0.3 - 0.4 quarts (or liters) every 1000 km (600 miles). Service guys told me cylinder rings have to be replaced and I did so.

    First question: is is possible that the ICE was not stopping when parked because of low compression in the cylinders ? And now having the compression back to normal, ICE to stop while car not moving ?

    Second question: service guys didn't gave me any other indications after these rings replacement (just a 1000 miles return for an optional check-up). Some other guy (not from service) told me that after rings replacement, it is compulsory that the oil has to be changed after 500 km (300 miles) and again one more time after another 3.000 km (1.800 miles). What is your opinion on this ? Oil have to be replaced as usual as service guys are saying or at 300miles then at 1800 miles ?

    I didn't mention the ring replacement from the start because I didn't think could have influence on the ICE behaviour.

    Regards,
     
    #40 DanT, Dec 30, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2015
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