1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Autoline Daily: Seat Time: 2015 Volkswagen Jetta

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Sep 17, 2014.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,117
    15,386
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Full title: AD #1459 – Renault’s Super Efficient Concept, Take Caution With Tesla, 2015 VW Jetta

    At this point, I could stand it no longer and posted this reply:
    It was bad enough when the Prius hatchback, 2004-current, was compared to the Corolla . . . usually to estimate the 'hybrid premium.' That they still use the Corolla for the Toyota model and ignore the Prius c . . . perhaps just wishful thinking on their part.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,679
    48,930
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    wow, well said bob, i hope you get a positive response, but i won't hold my breath.:cool:
     
  3. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    6,972
    3,209
    1
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    The reply is usually about how the Jetta is "fun" to drive while the Prius is like driving an appliance.
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,679
    48,930
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    as opposed to the corolla, which is a blast!:p
     
    bwilson4web and SageBrush like this.
  5. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    The source article says that the base petrol car starts at $17,000, while the diesel is $22,500.
    Nasty diesel premium ;)
     
    telmo744 and bwilson4web like this.
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,117
    15,386
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I did gain some insight about why 'highway' miles often seem to have more weight in these articles than 'city' miles. In the city, traffic is so distracting that the car itself fades from memory over the externals, the jerks, construction, and urban potholes. But highway driving is so monotonous that the mind has time to wander around to . . . the vehicle. So minor details of the car are amplified because on the highway, the driver (or reviewer) has time to think about them. This is not a hard rule but a tendency because urban traffic is so distracting.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #6 bwilson4web, Sep 18, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2014
  7. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2010
    2,168
    764
    0
    Location:
    Portugal
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Jetta in Europe is a sedan Golf. Competes with Corolla.
    I always thought Prius c and Yaris HSD shared platform...and the latter is a B-segment, while Jetta is C-segment.
    Just my 2 cents.
     
    Trollbait likes this.
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,117
    15,386
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I'm OK with comparing the Jetta TDI to any similar size Prius. The prius c is similar in price and EPA class.

    Bob Wilson
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,682
    11,292
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    I wouldn't quibble over the EPA size designation for this. For one, the companies' don't use them marketing, and most buyers don't look at it either. Telmo744 brought up the segments and classes that the companies actually use for this. These cars are all sedans that are size down from their mid-size family sedan. Traditionally, these have been compact classed cars. Because design bloat now has them classified as mid-size under EPA doesn't make them as big as a family sedan. They are still smaller cars that the public will see as the compact to the companies' main model.

    For another, under the hard measurements the Jetta is closer to the Corolla than the Prius c. The Corolla has a cubic foot over the Jetta in total cabin and trunk space. The Jetta has six over the c. The Jetta actually has the same posted measurements as the Cruze. One is mid-size and one is compact. Which just reinforces that using the EPA category name alone is misleading. My Sonic hatchback is classed as a mid-size, but no one is going to mistake as such.
    Compare Side-by-Side

    The Prius c is in the segment below the Corolla with the Yaris. It competes with the Sonic, Fiesta, and Versa. The Beetle is around the same size, but one of those unique vehicles that attract buyers not interested in the tradition sedan or wagon/hatch body types. In the past, these would all have been sub-compacts. Most of these cars will be on the lower end of compact if classified so.

    I too was annoyed by the gen2 Prius comparisons to the Corolla. But once a small car, always a small car to some.
    If we are to cry foul over Prius comparisons that aren't apples to apples, let's not be guilty of the same. Pent up demand and very limited, non-luxury competition means that the company can load up the base diesel with the features of the mid to top level petrol one and still sell them.
    Autoline has shown biases in the past, but not in this piece. If you hadn't been overly sensitive to that first paragraph and read on, Bob, you would have seen that this was just a piece doing quick review on changes for the new 2015 Jetta. That paragraph was the only time other cars were mentioned, and the only comparison made was to illustrate what market segment the car was in in case a reader didn't know what a Jetta was, and I believe I covered why the selection wasn't wrong. The diesel was mentioned because that was the tester they had. The only mpg figures given were the EPA ones for the various Jetta powertrains. The Jetta hybrid was the only one mentioned. The writers, "Getting behind the wheel is nothing to write home about...", isn't exactly gushing about the driving experience.
     
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,117
    15,386
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I went back and of the seven paragraphs, only the first has the problems identified. Had it been buried in the article, I might have missed it. But as the first, it drew attention:
    • The 2015 Volkswagen Jetta is a small 4-door sedan that competes against the likes of the Chevy Cruze, Ford Focus, Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla. - No problem had the full family of Jettas been introduced instead of buried in the third paragraph.
    • The price of the vehicle we tested came in just under $22,500, which was equipped with a 2.0L diesel engine mated to a 6-speed manual transmission. - Uh Oh, the problem is the diesel alone in the first paragraph is being held up as the example. Later in the article they discuss the various engine options including the gas engine. Had the list of all trims been put in here, no problem. But in the first paragraph, citing just the diesel puts emphasis on this one instead of the family of Jettas.
    • In that trim it’s capable of hitting 31 miles-per-gallon in the city and 46 on the freeway. - Had this been part of the paragraph showing the other Jetta trims, again, no problem. But in the first paragraph, like the topic sentence, it draws attention to one, minority trim, as if the others might be just as good.
    I am sympathetic to the problem of good writing as it is hard to write well and avoid being misunderstood. But like hitting an old wound, this first paragraph recalled a decade of TDI snark and wounded pride: (1) 'Meet the Volkswagens' commercial, (2) 'diesels get better than EPA MPG', (3) Green Human Portland-to-Portland driving stunt, and (4) 'Burning rubber' YouTube comparison between a Jetta and Prius. Having spent nearly a decade dealing with TDI needling, I'm sensitive to an article that started badly.

    If the TDI family gets someone out of a less efficient ride, good on them as the Prius is not for everyone. Even VW has developed a Jetta hybrid:
    2014 Jetta City Hwy range
    1 Hybrid 42 MPG 48 MPG 536 miles
    2 Diesel 30 MPG 42 MPG 493 miles
    3 Gas 24 MPG 32 MPG 392 miles
    Source: www.fueleconomy.gov.

    VW's Jetta numbers pretty well tell the tale.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #10 bwilson4web, Sep 19, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014
    usnavystgc and bisco like this.