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My transaxle fluid change and NEW custom drain and fill plugs...

Discussion in 'Prius v Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Mike500, Sep 8, 2014.

  1. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    Today, I drained and refilled the transaxle in my Prius"v" with 13.090 miles.

    With every NEW car or vehicle that I've purchased, I've always changed the automatic transmission fluid at about 12.000 miles.

    That, I did, today with my Prius"v."

    Contrary to pictures provided by others, there is no small ceramic magnet in the lower drain plug.

    The fluid was quite dark, but NOT burnt, like I've seen in other transmission fluid changes.

    I've always hated Phillips screws and hex socket headed screws like those o a lot of European cars like BMW. Unless you have the wrench fully seated in the socket and perfectly centered with the axis of the screw, you are likely to destroy the socket. This happens especially with frozen or corroded fasteners.

    The shallow hex 24mm head on the Gen II fill plug is NOT the answer. A 24mm socket and wrench is NOT a common size in a regular tool set.

    Searching far and wide for nearly six months, I finally found a US made plug with a full height 19mm or 3/4 inch hex head on it. To trap the iron and steel particles coming off of he gears, I bored out the center on my machinist lathe and secured a 15 pound pull N45 high grade neodymium rare earth magnet with green 640 Loctite. 640 is the Loctite used to lock cylinder sleeves into engine blocks.

    Now, I will always be able to remove and install the plugs with no worry of ever stripping out the heads.

    I have considered making these for other PriusChat members, but I'm not allowed to promote sales here.

    As far as the refill was, it took a few ounces more that was drained out. I believe that Toyota fills the transaxles to the lowest acceptable level to save cost.
     

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  2. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    I meant to send it in PM
     
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Honda typically uses a 3/8" square socket. A lot less likely to get rounded, and a totally ubiquitous interface: if you've got a 3/8" drive socket you're in business.
     
  4. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    Thanks.....
     
  5. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    I still don't like sockets.

    Sockets slip, and there is NOT enough "meat" to bore out for a comparative large neodymium magnet, and still maintain the integrity of the plug.
     
    #5 Mike500, Sep 8, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2014
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah, I understand. Kinda funny, back in the early 'eighties, first time I was looking to change a Honda auto transmission fluid, looked at the drain bolt, then phoned the dealership, asking if they might know the special adapter needed for the drain bolt. The service writer checked with a mechanic, came back on the phone, relayed that they were just using a 3/8" drive socket, nothing special. Let me off easy, lol.
     
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  7. nsfbr

    nsfbr Member

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    I was going to ask why the loctite, as the magnet isn't going anywhere, but then I figured I'd be useful instead of snarky. You may very well be aware of this, but Neodymium magnets' achilles heel is their temperature compatibility, and that is the parameter you should care about most. Depending on the temperature grade, they can irreversibly weaken as low as 100°C or as high as 200°C (or maybe higher, it has been a while since I was working in this field.) You may want to check on the temperature grade as I think it entirely probable that the magnet will see above 100°C due to soak back conditions at some point.

    While making sure I was remembering things correctly, I came across a table of the different temperature "ratings" of neo magnets. You have to take this with a grain of salt, but it is good information to have:

    The recommended maximum working temperatures are indicators of likely performance but the user should review their design for suitability or contact us for design assistance. The letter nomenclature is as follows (where xx is the Maximum Energy Product in MGOe):-
    Nxx 12000 Oe / 955kA/m (minimum)80 deg C / 175 deg F suggested maximum
    NxxM 14000 Oe / 1115kA/m (minimum) 100 deg C / 212 deg F suggested maximum
    NxxH 17000 Oe / 1355kA/m (minimum) 120 deg C / 248 deg F suggested maximum
    NxxSH 20000 Oe / 1590kA/m (minimum) 150 deg C / 302 deg F suggested maximum
    NxxUH 25000 Oe / 1990kA/m (minimum) 180 deg C / 356 deg F suggested maximum
    NxxEH 30000 Oe / 2385kA/m (minimum) 200 deg C / 392 deg F suggested maximum
    NxxVH / NxxAH 35000 Oe / 2785kA/m (minimum) 230 deg C / 446 deg F suggested maximum​

    As is usual, knowledge of this "feature" of neo magnets comes from having made a mistake that not having that knowledge may cause. I've had quite a few magnets become blocks of magnet material when the device they were in got much hotter than expected along with using magnets that were not of sufficiently high temperature grade. When I last bought magnets, they were EH and I was never able to "break" them.
     
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  8. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    In service, the transaxle fluid will NEVER reach the temperatures you listed, except for the lowest grade magnet that you listed. In that case, you'll have more to worry about than an overheated transaxle, since damage to the inverter might likely occur.
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Mike, on second thought, I'd say the 3/8" square socket (used by Honda) was very solid. You could put a wrench on it and just leave it just hanging, if need be. The square shape seems very solid, compared to hex socket.

    Just saying.
     
  10. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    It won't fit, unless you have a HONDA. The threads are NOT the same. The HONDA plug has M20x1.5 threads for the automatic transmission plug and much smaller M14x1.5 threads for the manual plug. Toyota uses M18x1.5 threads for transmission, transaxle and differential plugs.
     
    #10 Mike500, Sep 8, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2014
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  11. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    I did extensive research in deciding on the plugs for this project. I chose Made in USA plugs that are of much better quality than the Chinese made ones. From my experience with fasteners and their manufacturing methods, the plugs I sourced have machine "rolled" threads, which are stronger than the die "cut" threads on the OEM plugs. "Rolled" threads are "cold forged" and work hardened.

    I sourced aluminum crush washers that are the same 2mm thickness as the OEM ones but 1.5mm larger in the OEM ones for a larger sealing surface.

    There is one inline vendor that just glues a large neodymium magnet on the end of an OEM plug and sells them for $19.95.

    My plug is machine bored to hold a large imbedded magnet, as shown with the plug compared to an uninstalled magnet.

    I have uploaded more photos that are self-explanatory.
     

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  12. nsfbr

    nsfbr Member

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    Right, and the lowest grade is the most likely to have found unless it was specifically named as otherwise (for most applications, it just costs more and gives no benefit to use a higher temperature grade.) I posted the table just for info, but I suspect the probability you have the lowest grade is fairly high (like 50-50).

    I'm just providing information. Feel free to use as you see fit. In particular, I KNOW that plenty of places under the hood can reach MUCH higher temperatures when the car is turned off after use than people realize, and certainly higher than the coolant temperature. I personally have no idea as to whether that applies to the transaxle fluid in the pan.
     
  13. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    I doubt that degradation or the magnetic gauss rating drops to zero at the top range of the rating. So, it doesn't even matter. At full catastrophic failure, the iron/steel particles, having a higher specific gravity than transmission oil will remain at the bottom of the transmission case.

    The lowest quality neodymium magnet is still stronger than the miniscule 9mm dia. x 2mm thick ceramic magnet that Toyota supplied in the past, that is NOW MISSING from all Prius models.
     
  14. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    I have decided to make up a small quantity of three piece sets, since the ECU coolant drain plug uses the same thread and gasket or crush washer.

    These will fit the transaxles on ALL Prius models from 2004 to the 2015's. That includes all Prius liftback, Prius "c" and Prius"v."

    Once installed, servicing the transaxle fluid and draining the ECU coolant will no longer require a 10mm hex wrench and/or an extra large 24mm socket on the Gen III Prius.

    All that will be needed to remove ad reinstall ALL the plugs is a 19mm or 3/4 inch socket.

    The transaxle drain plug will have a large 15 pound pull N45 rare earth neodymium magnet imbedded into it locked with Loctite #640.

    Each plug will include a NEW aluminum crush washer, three in all.

    These will be for sale but NOT here.
     

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  15. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    I tested the magnet I the drain plug to see how much holding power it had. The magnet held a 1-5/8 inch standard size jumbo combination wrench with contact made to the very small area of its curved surface.

    So, it is likely that it will catch most all of the iron and steel particles worn off of the transmission gears and parts.
     

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  16. Ivan White

    Ivan White Junior Member

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    Mike, where are you selling these? Need the site to order some from you! Thanks.
     
  17. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    EBay, $30 for the set of drain/fill bolts for the transaxle, and drain bolt for the inverter coolant. All come with crush washers.
     
  18. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    Does the "PriusChat Shop," section charge too much (monthly listing fee or high credit card payment processing)? Shame you can't sell here, with the fees going to help fund PriusChat.
     
  19. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    It's NOT the fees.

    It is reputation and logistics.

    I will gladly pay any fees.

    The PriusChat Shop is a good idea. I'm sure that Danny works very hard with it's logistics and does the best job that he can.

    It's the vendors. While most are very good at delivering what the customer orders, some promise more than they can delivery and are slow on delivery.

    Then, there are the logistics. I custom make small batches of things so I can share and finance my hobby. Making money is NOT my main goal. Like my ideas, my stuff changes continuously.

    I do sell these things but NOT here. I do it on other vendor sites. I would much rather have the fees go to support PriusChat.
     
  20. robertmaria

    robertmaria Member

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    what is ECU coolant ? the oil drain plug, the transaxle drain plug and the transaxle fill plug makes 3 plugs. so what is the ECU . and why does the transaxle fill plug need a magnet?