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Which battery will you choose

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by David Beale, Sep 8, 2014.

  1. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    For any number of reasons, my hunch is they won't offer two battery technologies. Could be wrong...

    Something this fundemental is going to bog down a few buyers, judging from opinions.

    Personally, think I'd prefer toyota to decide this, by unifying the battery types. If I was in the market, and had to choose, think I'd go for the older battery type, save money and let someone else beta test.

    Chances are though: the battery type will be bundled with option packs. :(
     
  2. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Choice it's a common strategy for phasing in & out, especially good when volume is high and spans many markets.
     
  3. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    There were similar rumors surrounding the Gen III at the time. A lot of web sites reported that the new Gen III Prius was going to have LiIon batteries. Well we all know now this didn't turn out to be entirely accurate. And they'll stick with NiMH for Gen IV. If you want a plug-in you'll get the LiIon or visa versa if you want LiIon you'll get a Plug-In. Lexus already has come out with their statements that they are sticking with NiMH. Toyota is trying to, quite literally, make the "hybrid premium" disappear by offering across every line they make. Now they have a SUV format (Highlander Hybrid) , large format (Camry and Avalon Hybrid and yes the new FCV), medium format (Prius) and a small format (Prius C) HSD. This may blur a little with the offer of AWD but not much.

    The Plug-In Prius was an outlier IMO but an important one. It let Toyota judge a Plug-In acceptance as well as gather real world data without too much of a risk. I believe they'll offer new Plug-Ins either as new car models or on current models but probably not more than 3 models. Any new Plug-Ins have to meet their design goals (3 hour charge at 120V and 1.5 hours at 240V).
     
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  4. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    There is a Gen3 Prius with Li-x. It is the 7-seater Prius v(agon) in Europe.
    I think (and hope) that Toyota will use the technology that makes the most engineering sense. Screw marketing hype
     
  5. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    If Toyota sticks with NiMH - it better be a couple $1000 cheaper since they already touted everyting else was cheaper...Hopefully a NiMH Liftback Prius will start at $17k base version
     
  6. goldfinger

    goldfinger Active Member

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    Given the choice between NiMH and cobalt based lithium ion I will go NiMH. Its proven, cheaper, safer, and more easily recycled. Its hard to make this calculus without the numbers, we'll have to wait and see. Wave a lithium titanate system at me and might get excited.

    Don't forget the patent strangle hold on NiMH is ending this year (thanks GM and Chevron). We could see better, bigger, and cheaper cells.
     
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  7. Ashlem

    Ashlem Senior Member

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    Interesting article on greencarreports that discusses this very thing. It doesn't really add anything new that hasn't already been discussed here, but at least it's being shown in other places as well.

    I just hope if they go with different batteries, the prices justify the costs for those cars. A base prius with a NiMH battery should sell for $21k or less if Toyota wants to attract more mainstream audiences. And no, not everyone wants a Prius c. And still crossing my fingers that they sell the next gen PiP nationwide, or else my money is going to another plug-in vehicle.

    Should Plug-Ins And Hybrids Offer A Range Of Battery Sizes?
     
  8. vinnie97

    vinnie97 Whatever Works

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    Side note: I saw a billboard advertising Cs for around $17k in southern California last Thursday. I agree the base price of the Prius proper should be no higher than $21k.
     
  9. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Wow. Heck of a deal
     
  10. vinnie97

    vinnie97 Whatever Works

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    It's been a while since I've compared the differences, but I'm guessing it's for the One (My Two was $20k+). In hindsight, the billboard may have listed them for $17,888 (so a roundup is more appropriate but could have easily been for $16,888), but what's <$1k give or take?
     
  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    The thought of a $17k Prius Liftback is, frankly, laughable. Do you really expect Toyota to sell a Prius for the price of a base Corolla and to cannibalize Prius c sales? Heck a Prius c One starts at $19k and doesn't have much in the way of amenities and a Camry starts at $23k. I suspect the same people expect a $17k Camry too?

    There's two ways Toyota can approach this - keep the same price and add more content (which is where the market appears to going) or keep the same content and lower the price.

    In 2009, there was pressure from Honda and the Insight to keep the price in check and that probably explained the ridiculous good value $22,000 Prius II. Notice how now the price is $24,200 with the Insight out of the running (among other factors). I can't speak for the US market since I don't follow it as close as I do in Canada but up here, the 2015 Prius starts at $26,155, down from $27,500 for 2010. I would expect the price to be close to Cdn$26,500.

    We've never seen a sub $20k Prius since the US$19,990 2004 Prius. Toyota has that price bracket covered with the Prius c. This leaves the Lifback the opportunity to move upmarket. (Like what MB is doing with the C-Class now that the B-Class and CLA-Class have the $30-$34k price bracket covered).

    Anyway to answer the original question, I'll probably have to wait and see what the official release looks like. If they end up going with one battery type, then this point is moot. But if they do offer two, it'll depend if there's a big enough bump in mpg or battery capacity (for mountain driving) over the NiMH for me to choose Li-ion. NiMH has been very reliable so I have no motivation to leave NiMH at this point in time.
     
  12. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    There is a $17k camry, it's advertised in the paper this week. New 2014 LE model. Down from $23k.

    How do you think they sell 450k units of these things?
     
  13. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    When I read reports about reducing prices, I interpret two sides to that coin:
    • To the consumer: prices are not going to go up by much or will stay the same.
    • To the shareholder: each product sold will generate more profit.
    I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want whatever Toyota puts into a $17k Prius. Perhaps an AM radio, manual windows, no A/C and the hybrid battery replaced with a AA Ray-o-vac.
     
  14. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    But they've been touting a cheaper Prius to the consumers themselves. Or, more like a cheaper platform to build to be cheaper to the consumers. For higher profits that would be extremely lame...And I'm sure Toyota would get a lot of backlash and perhaps lose some consumers.

    GM promises the same thing, a cheaper Volt. Don't forget they've already cheapened it quite a bit. Meanwhile, for Prius, it went up a couple hundred in the past 5 years or so? Volt went down what, $5k or so? Ok, the PiP went down $2k...but still not enough to compete IMHO
     
  15. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
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    I think you better keep on hoping and hoping to see a Prius start at $17k even with NiMh technology come Gen IV. My guess from what is being said in articles is lower models get NiMh and higher models end up with LiIon. Watching the industry I'm guessing pricing will remain around he same for Gen IV but a bit more options/features for that money (except when it comes to 'newer' battery tech as already mentioned).
     
  16. talonts

    talonts VFAQman

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    There is a vast difference between a dealer special and the MSRP of a vehicle.

    If you think that Toyota will shoot themselves in the foot by offering a liftback cheaper than the C, you're dreaming.

    Unless you're going to be even more delusional and think that the C's new MSRP will be less than $15k.
     
  17. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    What is advertised is different from MSRP. What the dealer adds on top of any factory discount is up to them.
     
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  18. goldfinger

    goldfinger Active Member

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    Nothing stopping large format NiMH now that the patents are expired. Bigger cells means fewer cells fewer interconnections and a simpler battery assembly. This could translate into cheaper batteries. Maybe we even get to cell level management which means the cells don't have to be factory matched. That has to cost something.

    I'm guessing gen 4 cells won't fit other gen batteries.