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A look at low-rolling resistance tires

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Aug 31, 2014.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    A look at low-rolling resistance tires

    I've probably over-quoted this article only because it accurately lays out the problem owners face when choosing a replacement tire. Car owners can't find credible sources of the "spider chart" described in the article nor specifications of the vehicle metrics that impact the tire specifications needed. With nine years of 2003 Prius ownership, 120,000 miles and four sets, and five years with a 2010 Prius and two sets, I've 'back ended' to some of these metrics.

    Gary mentions the 'spider chart' and Tire Rack does publish theirs such as these examples:
    [​IMG]
    and
    [​IMG]

    I appreciate the charts were published BUT where is the rolling resistance metric? Well here is one from Tire Rack:
    [​IMG]

    That Tire Rack publishes something is better than nothing. At least they are trying to give us some metrics . . . FROM 2009!

    As for my rant (not against Gary or Tire Rack,) comes from buying a pair of tires and paying nearly $200 that I will be testing in our 2003 Prius. It is my frustration at not finding credible, tire specifications, much less 2003 Prius suspension metrics, to let me make an informed choice, for what is likely to run nearly $400. Because I am going 'outside the margins', it also has risk, but I'm gambling with my family budget.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #1 bwilson4web, Aug 31, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2014
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  2. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    Nice examples of spider charts!
    Also wish we had current objective comparative info.
    Surprised Consumer Reports does not use this method to convey comparative tire information; it is very efficient.
     
  3. -Rozi-

    -Rozi- Member

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    In EU all manufacturers have to mark tires produced after July 2012 with roll-resistance, wet cornering and noise ratings by law. Labels are standardized like this one for Dunlop SP Winter Response 2:
    [​IMG]

    Do try some online Europe shops just to find the tire model you want. Then check if you can buy them in USA.

    Here's my query for PiP 2014 winter tires ordered from lowest to highest LRR at ReifenDirekt (in German language).
    As you can see winter tires hardly gets better rating than C for LRR.
     
    #3 -Rozi-, Sep 2, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2014
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  4. bestmapman

    bestmapman 04, 07 ,08, 09, 10, 16, 21 Prime

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    Hi Bob, you might look at the Hankook Optima H426 LLR tires. I am on my second set. I got 70,000 miles out of the first set. The price is good.

    Hankook Optima at Tire Rack
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    My Sonic uses the the H428 as OEM. To meet CAFE, the manufacturers are using every little trick, including LRR tires, to get there. The H428 isn't listed as LRR at Tire Rack though. Perhaps Hankook doesn't list officially them as LRR, or maybe the ones supplied to GM are a different compound? Of all the H426's listed for that tire size, only one speed and service rating is labeled LRR.
    Using Cookies
    Just more evidence that consumers need better labeling.

    The EU ones are straight forward and easy to read. A tire on one of the posted spider charts has a worse dry traction rating than it's wet. So maybe a dry traction label would also be called for.
     
  6. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    That is an interesting web site.
    I could not pull up the Michellin Energy Saver All Season tire (not sold in EU? ), but looking thru 80 tires in the 195/65 r15 size I did not find any with a rolling resistance score better than "C". Hmmm.
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Our OEM's were Michelin Pilot in 215/45R17. Again, not indicated to be LRR. But my seat-of-pants impression is they're pretty good in that regard. Unless they're a special run of that tire?
     
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The auto makers can get tires make to their specs. Which means the factory tires aren't the same as off the shelf replacements. So I have heard. I do know some tires are LRR while not listed as so, but it can depend on the exact size and likely other differences.
     
  9. -Rozi-

    -Rozi- Member

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    The URL I sent was set to display winter season tires only. That's why the best LRR rating was C.

    I believe, Michelin Energy Saver is a summer season tire. At least the ones that came stock on my Prius Plug-in are. Their EU LRR rating is B. Birdgestone Ecopia EP001S and some others are A-rated.
     
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  10. MattNiem

    MattNiem Junior Member

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    In addition to low RR Energy Saver (atleast the model they sell in Europe) is very durable too. Check the tests made by german ADAC automobile club, they are shared for free.
     
  11. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    Danke Schoen! Mein Schwager ist ein Mitglied der ADAC, und kann sicher damit helfen.
     
  12. HarSherm

    HarSherm Junior Member

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    How about winter tires? Any spider charts on winter tires? I live in Vermont, in the hills...gets slick.
     
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  13. Ashlem

    Ashlem Senior Member

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    Tirerack tested some winter tires:

    Tire Test Results : Testing the Newest Studless Ice & Snow Winter Tires

    I went with the Michelin X-Ice XI3 tires on my 2012 Prius c Four last year,, after the OEM tires that come with the car barely had any traction on the little bit of snow that we got in late November.

    While I can only speak for the Michelin tires, they drove really well in SE Wisconsin with that crazy weather we had in 2014. Thankfully the city is pretty proactive in plowing the streets any time we get more than an inch or two of snowfall, so driving in plowed streets was pretty nice. If I did hit slush and deep snow (like more than 4 inches), I did have some trouble, but keep in mind this isn't an SUV or truck that rides high either, and thankfully I never got stuck. It stopped me well enough, and I often watched other cars slide around at stop lights/signs.

    On dry pavement, they were fairly quiet and didn't suffer mpg loss too badly. I averaged about 44 mpg in the winter with those tires on, but driving slower and not crashing into anything with snow tires on is well worth the loss in mpg.

    On my liftback I ordered the same tires for it as well, and will be putting them on sometime in November. Hopefully they perform the same for this car as they did for my c.
     
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  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    We have X-Ice2 195/65R15. Our OEM tire (still on the car) is Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 215/45R17. The latter is a tire with so-so RR, even according to Michelin, who also id's the X-Ice as LRR. Another factor, the Pilots do about 1.5% more rev's per given distance (comparing to 195/65R15 size).

    Anyway, all that said, it seems we don't miss a beat, switching from the Pilots to the X-Ice, mpg about the same. Now if they were the same OD, the X-Ice might come out ahead, lol.

    This is still apples/oranges. I'm sure the X-Ice would lag a decent RR tire in 195/65R15. But still, not bad. The X-Ice feel LRR to me, easy rolling.
     
    #14 Mendel Leisk, Oct 20, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2014
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  15. MattNiem

    MattNiem Junior Member

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    X-ice 3, Nokian R2 and Continental ExtremeWinterContact are great tyres to choose from according to the tests I've seen (on local car magazines Tuulilasi and Tekniikan Maailma). Bridgestone WS80 might also be good, it isn't sold in here so they tested the older model WS70.

    R2 has had the lowest RR, but differences are small, like 1-2 % change in mpg.
     
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  16. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    The data is screwy. I switched to summer tires and found multiple listings for Energy Savers ranging from B to E in fuel efficiency. That can't be right!

    See this:
    Michelin ENERGY SAVER 195/65 R15 91T GRNX - ReifenDirekt.de
    and this:
    Michelin ENERGY SAVER 195/65 R15 91T MO, GRNX BSW BSW - ReifenDirekt.de
     
    #16 Former Member 68813, Oct 23, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
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  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    They aren't the same tire. The MO appears to mean it's a Mercedes OEM. Car manufactures can get tires made to their specs and vary from off the self versions. I don't know the test protocol, but the rolling resistance can vary between tire sizes of the same model.
     
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  18. -Rozi-

    -Rozi- Member

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    Never the less, the difference between those two tires are simply too different to be offset just by Mercedes-Benz tweaking it, aren't they? If those were different model year, Michelin would have labeled them Energy Saver and Energy Saver 2, if the difference was that big. Might be a typo. Might be, that Michelin found another more favourable lab to do the test again. ;)

    I'm not sure how much this E.U. ratings are true any more. Manufacturers are obliged to label their tires, but are free to choose certification lab theirselves...
    I.e.: Continental WinterContact TS 850 has all E.U. ratings worser than Dunlop Winter Response 2 (RR, wet grip & noise). Yet, it won best place in ADAC 2014/15 winter tire review. Dunlop WR2 was second and tight behind.

    Anyway, I just had Dunlop SP Winter Response 2 tires mounted to replace OEM Michelin Energy Saver tires. Dunlop WR2 is considerably quieter than OEM Michelin ES. I can't comment milage impact, since the temperatures outside dropped considerably the same day I replaced the tires. Plus I bought another set of after-market rims along, to change winter/summer wheels myself from now on. Hence, too much of a difference to judge the tire mileage impact alone.
     
  19. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    No. Trollbait is correct. The manufacturer specifications can alter the tire quite a bit. In some cases even the UTQG can change drastically between the OEM and aftermarket versions.
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    ^ I wonder thus about our OEM Pilots (mentioned in my post #14). They seem to roll well, regardless of Michelin's so-so rating on their website.